[an0n]

No, you're quoting Manson. I'm pulling stuff outta my ass.

*wipes hands*

[Rictor]

its probably a different quote. both are BS, or would be if people stopped being such damn hypocrites.

edit: thats Stalin, not Manson.

[an0n]

Marylin Manson, not Charles Manson.

It's a line from the Fight Song.

[Grey Wolf]

Here's the quote, which is indeed from Stalin:
A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.

And here's a quote that an0n's comment is similar to, from a biologist by the name of Jean Rostand:
Kill one man and you are a murderer. Kill millions and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone and you are God.

And just a random interesting quote:
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
And just a random interesting quote:
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.

oooohh, I gotta remember that one.

[ionia23]

Originally posted by an0n
Did it even occur to you that there might be a reason why they made it illegal to try people who'd been kidnapped from foreign nations?

Yup, it had occured to me.  Your point?

[Rictor]

*cough*mordechaivanunu*cough*

yes, terribly contagious. they don't call it the frozen north for nothing you know.

[an0n]

Originally posted by ionia23
Yup, it had occured to me.  Your point?

That if there was a good reason for it, then it's probably not a great idea to go around circumventing it.

[Nico]

Bah, that makes a goal for bad people to reach in roadmovies.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by ionia23


Dunno if you caught this in the article, but Mexico recently revised their extradition treaties to include both those who will face the death penalty, and those facing life imprisonment...

Well, it only said that as a quote from someone - someone who is understandably pissed off at Mexico and thus has an interest in criticising their extradition policy.  But I didn't see anything as fact saying that Mexico oppossed life in prison in that article, only that it was the death penalty.

just to clarify.

[SadisticSid]

Originally posted by Rictor
I don't want for this to turn into a political debate, but I am assuming that someone like Dubya or Rumsfelf is excused for murder? I mean, thousands of innocents died as a result of bombing, why is that not considered murder? It just seems to me that you (and most others) have a double standard. Killing one person is a crime, the worst a person could commit, but murdering a thousand or ten thousand in "policy".

Just remember, these are people too. Killing does not take that away. Not to mention that some of the things for which a person goes to prison for, such as using drugs, are insane. You get punished for what you do to your own body.

That would not be murder in any legal or moral degree:

• there was no *intent* to kill innocents
• local commanders would be responsible for giving those orders and making the decisions which resulted in the deaths
• and soldiers/pilots would be ultimately responsible for killing innocent people rather than their intended targets

Saying that Bush and Rumsfeld are murderers is like saying a world leader is a murderer because they cut their healthcare budgets, resulting in an increased number of people dying from a poorer quality of care.

[karajorma]

Lets compare this with the situation when another state (let's say Saudi Arabia) which does have the death penalty wants to extradite an american citizen. What's the difference?

I don't know how many times this has happened to Americans but I've lost count of the stupid British girls who've gotten off after being convicted of trafficing drugs to the far east because of diplomatic pressure.

[Rictor]

yeah, but over there they really mean it. ****, I wouldn't want to get caught with drugs in Turkey or something.

SadisticSid: alright, in that case, why aren't the individual soldiers up on murder charges? Intent is always dubious. How can anyone prove intent? And don't give the excuse that its wartime. The fact is, many of those soldiers wanted to kill. And if they don't see a militant, they go for the next best thing.

And yes, in theory, the politician who cuts healthcare is guilty of murder. If he knows that it will cause increased deaths, then he is fully accountable. You may think its ridiculous, but I don't see why not. Explain to me, in logic terms, why not? Thats why I favour universal healthcare, and thats another reason why I really can't stand people who are against it.

[ionia23]

Originally posted by karajorma
Lets compare this with the situation when another state (let's say Saudi Arabia) which does have the death penalty wants to extradite an american citizen. What's the difference?

There isn't one.  Same rules would apply, if that makes any sense.  Can't have equal benefits without equal consequences.

[aldo_14]

Well, the Us does extradite prisoners to the likes of Syria and Saudi Arabia for "interrogation"* anyways.

(*read: torture)

[karajorma]

It extradites people it doesn't like. But if a white businessman was a accused of a murder in Iran and fled back to the US does anyone believe that he would get sent back to stand trial?

Originally posted by ionia23
There isn't one.  Same rules would apply, if that makes any sense.  Can't have equal benefits without equal consequences.

Same rules should[/] apply but I very much doubt they would. It would be all "but the arab world is so unfair" and "They kill people for committing murder over there"

Hell, international cases can cause all kinds of legal strangeness. Look at the  Louise Woodward case. I'm glad she got off cause many scientists are beginning to question the existance of shaken baby syndrome but part of me does find it wrong that she only got off because of the whole international aspect of the case.

[ionia23]

Originally posted by karajorma
It extradites people it doesn't like. But if a white businessman was a accused of a murder in Iran and fled back to the US does anyone believe that he would get sent back to stand trial?

Same rules should[/] apply but I very much doubt they would. It would be all "but the arab world is so unfair" and "They kill people for committing murder over there"

See, here comes one of my more rare *****es about America.  People seem to have a problem where we expect everyone to follow our rules here, but we show zilch respect for rules over 'there', wherever 'there' is.  I'm speaking more about following laws when you're a guest in a foreign country.

You remember that big crybaby from here who got busted in Singapore for vandalism?  What he should have done is fessed up and taken his punishment like a man.  Did he?  No, he took it like a brat and made all of us look spineless and disrespectful.

If you break laws in another country you should expect to be judged by the laws of said-country.