Author Topic: New fighter  (Read 6414 times)

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Offline FireCrack

  • 210
  • meh...
It's not that big...
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
I like it.

Though I would also definitely class a spacecraft of this size class a "bomber", not a "fighter"... In FS2 universe.

Actually, if we compare the FS2 fighters and bombers to WW2 aircraft... well, then almost any bomber on FS2 would be rather a "fighter-bomber" than "bomber".

WW2 bombers ARE huge, and the fact is that behemoth of that size would not be very useful on Freespace type of combat... at least, as piloted. If used right, a wing of those could deliver a deadly blow to any cap ship, including tha Sathanas Juggernaut. They have limited speed and maneuverability, but their armor is not so much better than fighters'... they're just bigger, so they can take more random hits, but critical systems will go offline on about same amount of fire that is required for fighters system failure...

So, if we would want to really build a bomber that would be somewhat "similar" to, say, WW2 B-17 or B-24, it should be:

-20-30 metres long (B-17 was 22,7 m long) and about 15 metres wide - there would be no need for a wing span as great as B-17's whopping 31,6 m, so this width would rather consist of weapon banks and engines

-have multiple crew, that could be shown from outside; when piloting, it's not a big deal...

-generally have a speed of ~1/2 - 2/3 of the best intercept fighter there is (which would be Serapis, wouldn't it? Or Perseus? I can't remember... No, now I remember, Horus is the fastest ship in GTVA...) Anyway, the B-17 top speed was 480 km/h ~ 133 m/s . And yes, I think that every damn craft on FS2 should run at least 200 m/s to even qualify as a fighter - damn, even the WW2 interceptors such as Messerschmitt Bf109 K or FW190 D types flew faster than 700 km/h, which is about 194 m/s... and how fast does the Horus go? 150 m/s with afterburners? About so, if I remember right... Unfortunately, more realistic speeds make dogfighting *much* harder, which would decrease playability... so in a way, the speeds are good as they are... *sigh*.

-The payload should be much greater than in current FS2 "bombers". For example, B17 could carry up to 3600 kg of bombs... and had at least 12 .50-caliber Browning machine gun turrets on it... Whereas the best fighter-bombers of WW2 could only carry about 1/2 of that; Ju-87 Stuka (dive bomber) payload was 1800 kg at maximum (D-variant, common payloads were smaller) and IL-2 Shturmovik (ground attack) could only carry 600 kg of bombs and rockets. So, a B-17 equivalent FS2 bomber should be able to carry at least twice the payload of a Boanerges, PLUS have about 5 times more other weapons, mainly turrets.

-Additionally, it should have about 1/3 of a maneuverability of the Boanerges or other similar "fighter-bomber"... or ~1/10 of a Perseus, Myrmidon or any other fighter...


Actually only Seraphim of FS2 bombers can get even close to be classified as a real bomber... but even in that case, I'd class it equivalent to a Ju-88 or similar, 2-engine bomber of WW2.

On the other hand, if we want to build a bomber that would be equivalent to, say, Tupolev Tu-95 "Bear", now, there would be a real behemoth...

Tu-95 has a top speed of 925 km/h (!), which is ~257 m/s... or, again, about 1/2 of common fighter's speed. Tu-95 is about 50 metres long and has a wing span of the same amount... but again, that much width is not needed on spacecraft. It has 4 turboprop engines, giving an approx power of 11 033 kW EACH. So, the engines should be quite impressive... Just like weapon banks: Tu-95 can carry up to 15 000 kg of bombs... that's 4 times as much as B-17. Maneuverability is even more limited than B-17's...

Anyone can see that if these craft had a prober fighter cover, they could be used *effectively* to wipe aut capital ships. One bombing run would be more than sufficient, should it penetrate the first defense, aka fighter screen.

Flying them would not be great fun, though... But they would be more like bombers. All the FS2 "bombers" could be associated with ground attack aircraft, dive bombers or fighter bombers... at most they could assume a role of a small 2-engine bomber, but that's it.

This new craft could very well be a fighter-bomber... but I'd like to see a REAL bomber being modeled, just for fun.

Oh yes... I'd place something onto those wings. On space they are useless if something is not attached to them. Perhaps they could be bent forwards in a negative arrow-shape? And add tertiary weapon banks or fuel tanks below wingtips...

EDIT: Oh yeah... forgot to mention US Strategic bomber, B1 Lancer... Dimensions a bit smaller than Tu-95, much faster (max 1329 km/h), greater payload (three internal bomb bays for 34 000 kg of bombs AND 6 external hardpoints for 27 000 kg of ordnance, total of 61 000 kg of divverent kinds of ordnance...) boy, that thing can deliver quite a punch... it'd be a goddamn killer, should it unleash it's firepower...
« Last Edit: November 19, 2005, 12:03:57 am by Herra Tohtori »
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline FireCrack

  • 210
  • meh...
The helios is as long as an AT-AT is tall, probably weighs more than the laoded weight of any real bomber.
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
Are you seriously suggesting that a single Helios torpedo would be as long as an Imperial All-Terrain Armored Transport is tall?

I don't think it is. It wouldn't fit into the bombers that carry it...

Or are you perhaps referring to some other Helios, some that I have no knowledge of? I can't remember anything else named Helios but the torpedo...
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline FireCrack

  • 210
  • meh...
Well, if you follow thae AT-AT's as being 15.5m tall. The helios is actaly slightly shorter, around 14m.


Edit: nevermind, turns out that 15.5m is errornous, the AT-AT is actualy 22m tall, same height as the ursa


Either way, this isnt the thread for this...


And this ship design could realy look good with a gaping maw on the textures...

« Last Edit: November 19, 2005, 02:47:59 am by FireCrack »
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
Aye, true.

-Though still I wonder where the hell does that 14-meter long bomb FIT on, say, Myrmidon fighter? The whole damn fighter is merely 16 metres long... Still it can carry the bomb inside it's gun racks...

Btw: most FS2 Ships tend to be bigger than they feel to fly... e.g. Boanerges actually IS longer than mentioned B-17... though on other respects it is more fighter-bomber-ish.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Unknown Target

  • Get off my lawn!
  • 212
  • Push.Pull?
I'm still going to stick with a "Heavy Fighter" classification for this one. If I make a bomber, well, you'll see.
And by the way, those wings are for payload - it hangs off and over them :)

And geeze Herra, that's a long post, lol.

 

Offline Charismatic

  • also known as Ephili
  • 210
  • Pilot of the GTVA
    • EVO
**** YOU NEW POST SYSTEM CANNOT EVEN POST A ****ING PICTURE MOTHER ****ER
This brought me a good laugh. Heh still dose. Amen.

The fighter is lookin good man, nice job.
:::PROUD VASUDAN RIGHTS SUPPORTER:::
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"(CENSORED) Galatea send more than two (CENSORED) fighters to escort your (CENSORED) three mile long (CENSORED), STUPID (CENSORED).  (CENSORED) YOU, YOU (CENSORED)!!!"

  
I am loving this model.  I thought it was really funky and akward in the first picture in the first post, but the nearly completed version textured and everything.. I dunno.. it just really really appeals to me.  Looks GREAT.
how do i shot gun???