[aldo_14]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4720863.stm

In other news; dead horse 'delighted' after cessation of flogging, asks for sugarcube

[pyro-manic]

Good to hear, but will they give up their stranglehold on organised crime and the black market? Unlikely, I feel...

[Martinus]

Originally posted by aldo_14
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4720863.stm

In other news; dead horse 'delighted' after cessation of flogging, asks for sugarcube

[color=66ff00]Won't really do much to be honest, I still reckon the odd punishment beating will occur just under a less official guise.

The unionists won't think anything of it either as they won't ever be happy with anything of a nationalist nature. There's still the UVF/LVF issue though.
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[aldo_14]

At least now everyone knows they're just petty thugs and criminals, rather than spouting ****e about some glorious cause.

UVF / IRA / etc are as bad as each other.  Sadly, we can't just dump them on a remote island and let them beat the **** out of each other.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by aldo_14
At least now everyone knows they're just petty thugs and criminals, rather than spouting ****e about some glorious cause.

UVF / IRA / etc are as bad as each other.  Sadly, we can't just dump them on a remote island and let them beat the **** out of each other.

[color=66ff00]Of course not, they'd start an offshore drug supply business.
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[aldo_14]

Well, I thought maybe it could be a boat disguised as an island, so you could sink it afterwards.  You could send in a special automoton of Ian Paisley* (actually, he is an automaton anyways... knows only the words no and NO!) with a bomb in his belly to do the dirty deed.

Sort of like a specially bigoted Dalek, I guess.

*Like **** is he 'reverend'.

[Rictor]

Argh, this is terrible. Now whenever Hollywood feels the need to sprinkle a European in among it's mix of terrorist badguys, they'll have to go to either the Russians or the Serbs, and their accents aren't nearly as cool.

[Clave]

It's a sad day, the struggle for freedom is finally over.

[pyro-manic]

Explain, please?

[redsniper]

He's with the IRA?

[Clave]

Nah, just kidding, I'm pretty happy they are not blowing stuff up any more.  We have someone else doing that now...

BTW: Nelson Mandela - freedom fighter? or terrorist?

[aldo_14]

Mandela was a freedom fighter; he was fighting something demonstratably evil and oppressive.  It is admittedly a tenous distinction; but AFAIK Umkhonto we Sizwes' tactics during Mandelas active time there were more towards sabotage and veered from active targeting of civillians.  I think you can make the judgement on a similar basis as towards WW2 resistance movements.

[Clave]

But was not the British Goverment oppressing the Irish?

(Not my view, just a discussion point)

[WMCoolmon]

Another instance where I was confused.

NRA != IRA

[vyper]

Originally posted by Clave
But was not the British Goverment oppressing the Irish?

(Not my view, just a discussion point)

Firstly, define oppressing.

Secondly, it doesn't justify blowing civilians up. Nor the limbs of toddlers in London (as happened on one occasion).

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Clave
But was not the British Goverment oppressing the Irish?

(Not my view, just a discussion point)

I don't think so; not in recent history IMO.  AFAIK there isn't a majority support for the IRAs cause in Northern Ireland, and I don't believe there's a solid case for proving a policy of oppression of all Catholic Irish (being the group most connected with the IRA) in N.Ireland, although some of the worst British / RUC actions during the troubles (notably Bloody Sunday) could be interpreted as oppressive individual actions.

Also, the IRA targeted innocent civillians - to me there's a point where even a just cause can be 'fought' using unjust measures.  I think the IRA crossed that line (as a random example, killing 2 Australian tourists in holland who they mistook for off-duty British soldiers, or bombing Harrods at Christmas).

[Bobboau]

question: a person who exploits a good cause as an excuse for despinceing violence to make personal gain, are they a terrorist even if ultamately more good comes out of the situation than bad?

[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]aldo's pretty much got it right, most people don't really give a damn about the IRA or the UVF/LVF, we just want to get on with living like anybody else.

The problem is the politicians, the unionists are power grabbing idiots and Sinn Fein are not trusted and thus carry almost no respect in political circles. The DUP effectively indoctrinates it's voters using fear and religion, the more moderate unionists vote for the Ulster Unionist party or abstain. The nationalists vote for Sinn Fein (hard-liners generally) or the SDLP but the SDLP carry no weight and thus a lot of nationalist votes are effectively nulled.

As for oppression, there's nothing blatent except at flash point areas and certain events like Orange marches and there's a lot of mistrust in general as unionists are given better jobs using tricks to get around the equal oppurtunities laws.

I abstain from voting, if I had to vote I'd choose the workers party but that's like voting lib. dem.
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[vyper]

[q]unionists are given better jobs using tricks to get around the equal oppurtunities laws.[/q]

Funny that, it's the opposite in Glasgow city council - if there's ever an emergency Mass of some sort the council will grind to a halt.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Bobboau
question: a person who exploits a good cause as an excuse for despinceing violence to make personal gain, are they a terrorist even if ultamately more good comes out of the situation than bad?

Can't be answered in the general case.  It depends what the personal gain is, whether they represent a majority, what the 'bad' and 'good' are, and specifically how many innocent people are hurt*.

*Arguably this could be applied to carpet bombing of Axis countries in WW2; but IMO that situation is of a different paradigm - total war, and in an era when precision bombing wasn't really possible.