[Stealth]

Originally posted by aldo_14

why it's not as unlikely as you believe it is, and why evidence supports that.  If you really want to avoid learning about why scientists (and some of the finest minds of humanity at that)have decided this is the best, most proven theory, feel free - but you won't be doing yourself and favours.

but that's the thing... DO they.  Darwin later disputed his own theory, and didn't Einstein (arguably the most genius man of the millenium) dispute evolution?  (<-- note that may not be correct.  i remember reading about it)

Even so, didn't the 'finest minds of humanity' at one point believe the earth was flat?  that the sun and the moon and stars orbited around the earth?  that earth sat on a giant tortoise floating in a never-ending ocean, etc. ec.

[karajorma]

I can see how you could make that mistake just reading those two

[Stealth]

And even if it's so incredibly unlikely as to never occur anywhere else, it still doesn't matter - because it began here.

this is a little off-topic, i know

but how do you KNOW it began here?  how do you know there isn't another planet in another galaxy somewhere that's had life since before earth?

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Stealth
but that's the thing... DO they.  Darwin later disputed his own theory, and didn't Einstein (arguably the most genius man of the millenium) dispute evolution?  (<-- note that may not be correct.  i remember reading about it)

Darwin never disputed the fundemental theory of evolution. He just got tangled up trying to explain heredity without any knowledge of genetics.

As for Einstein, boy have you made a bad choice to make an example of . Einstein wasted the last 20 years of his life trying to disprove his own theory of relativity (hence the famous "God does not play dice with the universe quote creationists are so fond of").

Science isn't based on personalities. Just cause Einstein said quantum physics was wrong doesn't make him right even. Not even if he invented the bloody thing When Einstein said he'd got it wrong every single phyisist said "prove it" and went off and through away 20 years trying to do so. Meanwhile they found more proof every day that he was right.

So even if you dug up Darwin, reanimated him and got him to say that he was wrong it wouldn't matter one iota.  


On top of that Einstein was knowledgable about physics not biology AFAIK. His views on evolution aren't really that important unless you can show that he had studied the natural sciences heavily (And maybe not even then considering the way he acted unscientifically in trying to refute quantum physics). It's sort as if a professor of phyiscs is telling you that the fan belt on your car is broken and a mechanic is telling you it's the spark plugs. Who would you believe?

Originally posted by Stealth
but how do you KNOW it began here?  how do you know there isn't another planet in another galaxy somewhere that's had life since before earth?

A theory called Panspermia states that. It's not widely credited because it still suffers from the fact that even if life did come from elsewhere you need to explain how it arose there and travelled here.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Stealth


but that's the thing... DO they.  Darwin later disputed his own theory, and didn't Einstein (arguably the most genius man of the millenium) dispute evolution?  (<-- note that may not be correct.  i remember reading about it)

Darwin didn't; it's an oft-repeated urban myth he recanted on his deathbed.  Darwin did dislike the theories of 'social darwinism' and what would eventually become the basis of eugenics.  IIRC the main concern Darwin has with his theory was how species originated and changed, as the theory of natural selection proposed constancy rather than change (as positive attributes would be diluted through generations).  This issue has, of course, been explained by DNA - dominant and recessive genes.  (oddly enough, Mendel owned a copy of Darwins Origin of the Species, but never thought to connect his work on inheritence - which discovered recessive and dominant characteristics - to Darwins.

I've not found any concrete evidence of Einsteins belief of creationism.  I did find this quote;

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
 March 24, 1954

and

"I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation. I cannot do this in spite of the fact that mechanistic causality has, to a certain extent, been placed in doubt by modern science.

My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality. Morality is of the highest importance - but for us, not for God."
(5 August 1927)

I think there's an often repeated quote used to justify Einstein believing in creationism; ""I am satisfied with the mystery of life's eternity and with a knowledge, a sense, of the marvelous structure of existence - as well as the humble attempt to understand even a tiny portion of the Reason that manifests itself in nature."

But if you look at what Einsteins written, it's pretty likely he views God - and religion in general - as being the spark towards investigating the universe, rather than an explanation for it.  Certainly I've never found a single quote from Einstein referring to creationism or evolution - after all, he was a physicist, not biologist.

Originally posted by Stealth

Even so, didn't the 'finest minds of humanity' at one point believe the earth was flat?  that the sun and the moon and stars orbited around the earth?  that earth sat on a giant tortoise floating in a never-ending ocean, etc. ec.

and that God created all life in a single day?  That wasn't really science, was it?  So they weren't the worlds greatest minds then; just oral historians creating their own vision of existance, no more valid than the All-Knowing Spaghetti Monster.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Stealth


this is a little off-topic, i know

but how do you KNOW it began here?  how do you know there isn't another planet in another galaxy somewhere that's had life since before earth?

I don't.  

I didn't say - or mean that - the suggestion was it travelled to earth, or from earth, or only exists upon earth.  It's quite possible it does.  My opinion is that it's very likely; I tend to agree with Jay Gould - "life, arising as soon as it did, was chemically destined to be".

[Wild Fragaria]

Who created God?

[Corsair]

God's mom and dad?

[aldo_14]

The All Knowing Flying Spaghetti Monster

[Wild Fragaria]

Originally posted by Corsair
God's mom and dad?

Oh, so God has parents?  And what do you call them?

[aldo_14]

Well, He calls them mum and dad, obviously.  To you they're Mr and Mrs God.

[Wild Fragaria]

Originally posted by aldo_14
Well, He calls them mum and dad, obviously.  To you they're Mr and Mrs God.

So they all have the same name -- God?  And is God female or male?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Wild Fragaria
So they all have the same name -- God?  

No.  Mr Steve God and Mrs Mary God.  It's a rich tapestry.

Originally posted by Wild Fragaria
And is God female or male?

He's still deciding.  Gender identity is so difficult for the immaterial omnipresent.