Author Topic: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre  (Read 3856 times)

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Offline achtung

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
erm, try here

Quote
The page you were looking for - has been changed, or does not exist

you can always take a look around...
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Offline Flipside

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
Remove the " from the end of the address ;)

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
Thank you, I realize that. But it is possible for one to be legally French (which entitles them to the same treatment as every other citizen, something I am not disputing) while not being culturally French. If you intentionally and systematically seperate yourself from French customs and beliefs, sorry, but you're not really French. In any case, do you think it would have made any difference if the rioters had been white? Would that excuse the massive arson and lawlesness?

Y'know, I'm probably legally British but almost certainly not culturally British.   Should that make a difference?

 

Offline redmenace

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
From what I understand the those culturally french haven't made much attempt to change and incorporate there immagrants and foreigners into their country and culture. Not that is should be forced, but simply encouraged. In some respects this is their fault. The French Gov't and culture is directly and enthusiastically adverse to change. And this is a widely known fact. Most obvious are the laws requiring cinemas to show a certain percantage of French films. Or how they refuse to allow muslim children to wear head scarfs in school. NONE of this justifies the lawlessness and general disregaurd for others property or these muslim communities not realizing that these young teenage punks had it coming when they:
A. Tried stealing auto parts IIRC
B. Jumped the fence of a power subsystem to evade police.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
Quote
kazan:   riots are always 1 part cause, 3 parts assholer

Pretty accurate I thought :)
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
From what I understand the those culturally french haven't made much attempt to change and incorporate there immagrants and foreigners into their country and culture. Not that is should be forced, but simply encouraged. In some respects this is their fault. The French Gov't and culture is directly and enthusiastically adverse to change. And this is a widely known fact. Most obvious are the laws requiring cinemas to show a certain percantage of French films. Or how they refuse to allow muslim children to wear head scarfs in school. NONE of this justifies the lawlessness and general disregaurd for others property or these muslim communities not realizing that these young teenage punks had it coming when they:
A. Tried stealing auto parts IIRC
B. Jumped the fence of a power subsystem to evade police.

The headscarf thing was really about having a secular culture in schools; it's not something imposed on just muslim children. I'm not sure it'd be a/the catalyst for rioting, either; not only is it quite a long time since it was passed, the opposition for it was damaged by the taking of French reporters hostage in Iraq (their captors wanted the ban repealed).

 The cinemas thing is about protecting their own culture (likewise music) from the overwhelming pressure of, for example, Hollywood films.  I don't think that's a good example to cite of lacking integration; in fact I'd say it's a more positive thing, that it helps preserve a national identity in a homogenized world.

 What is a problem, is social deprivation and isolation; packaging immigrant communities in insular high-rise blocks or housing estates, a lack of investment in improving facilities & eduction, a lack of suitable entry level jobs and discrimination against ethnic candidates, etc.  If people feel physically and socially isolated, then they'll feel voiceless and be more likely to resort to aggression.  But most societal groups can easily survive the former sort of cultural exclusion by forming their own nascent culture; in fact I think that's exactly what happens in France (it's not like a lack of the latest Will Smith movie or 50 cent album is going to make French immigrants feel isolated, is it?).

There's no excuse to justify running out and burning cars, of course.  But you have to still examine the reasons why this sort of situation can keep burning and spreading, and why people feel they have a pretext to do so.  Otherwise you'll continually be addressing the symptoms and not the actual problem.

 

Offline redmenace

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
I am just analyzing, thats all.

The thing about the cinemas was just pointing out the general hostility to foreign culture. It seems to me the French are hostile to the idea of the "melting pot." I look at everything in total. Yes, blocking certain number of movies from airing will not cause riots. But I am lending this to a general attitude of French Society. And the headscarf thing might not be directed towards Muslims specifically, but it does hinder their religious freedom if such a thing exists in France.(I don't know French law or legal customs) It is a reasonable accomodation.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
 While other cultures do accept things from other languages any country that feels the need to say that le email can't be used because it isn't a french enough term obviously has serious problems with regards to accepting anything from outside their borders.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
Yep. That's pretty much what I'm on about. Yet English speakers have been quite happy to use terms like deja vu, laissez faire etc for ages.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
Yep. That's pretty much what I'm on about. Yet English speakers have been quite happy to use terms like deja vu, laissez faire etc for ages.

Albeit to be fair, English is seemingly the de-facto (and increasingly so) language of business, politics, etc.  So it's not like chucking in the odd french phrase is reducing the representation of the actual language in those terms.  Of course, it's probably partly because we (the UK at least) are so ****e at actually learning other languages.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
Yeah but we've been using those words before that happened. We haven't had an institute for the last 400 years who's sole purpose was to make sure that all our words were proper English.

*Looks at America*

Hmmmm. Maybe we should have had one :D
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Offline redmenace

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
One people seperated by a common language?
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
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Offline StratComm

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
Yeah but we've been using those words before that happened. We haven't had an institute for the last 400 years who's sole purpose was to make sure that all our words were proper English.

*Looks at America*

Hmmmm. Maybe we should have had one :D

Wouldn't have done you any good, we would have thrown it out along with old George and all that silly tea :p
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
Yeah but we've been using those words before that happened. We haven't had an institute for the last 400 years who's sole purpose was to make sure that all our words were proper English.

*Looks at America*

Hmmmm. Maybe we should have had one :D

Ahm no sure ah ken whit yer on aboot.

Spoiler:
Of course, some doss **** will probably think that's meant to sound canadian or something, going by US TV shows.......
« Last Edit: November 14, 2005, 09:16:55 am by aldo_14 »

 

Offline Grey Wolf

Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
Yeah but we've been using those words before that happened. We haven't had an institute for the last 400 years who's sole purpose was to make sure that all our words were proper English.

*Looks at America*

Hmmmm. Maybe we should have had one :D

Wouldn't have done you any good, we would have thrown it out along with old George and all that silly tea :p
That's actually the source of some of American English's more unusual spellings. Webster didn't like matching the British, so he made up new spellings.
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Offline vyper

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
Yeah but we've been using those words before that happened. We haven't had an institute for the last 400 years who's sole purpose was to make sure that all our words were proper English.

*Looks at America*

Hmmmm. Maybe we should have had one :D

Wouldn't have done you any good, we would have thrown it out along with old George and all that silly tea :p

Not sure you'll be able to toss the tea this time, remember all those smugglers helped you do it last time.
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Offline MetalDestroyer

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Re: French Riots Spread to Lyon City Centre
I have some word about this ^^
The riots were not only happen in Lyon, but in the whole french territories and especially in the capital (Paris and his neighboor department), and main city like Toulouse, etc...

The reason for a such violent from young, is the fact that one man (Ministor of the interior - Mr Sarkosy)  in France's Government had insulted a spefically type of people we call like  "les gens de la citée" something like that. He insulted them as rabble and  He won't give any excuse.

But like Nico said, some young make riots just for funs.