[Turambar]

i go for the try-before-you-buy methodology.   imagine how pissed off i would be if i decided to buy 3 doors down's second and/or third cd's because i liked the first one.


i did the same thing with caesar iv.  if i had actually bought that game and been unable to play it, i would have been ****ing pissed.  now im just kind of annoyed instead.

[Polpolion]

i go for the try-before-you-buy methodology.   imagine how pissed off i would be if i decided to buy 3 doors down's second and/or third cd's because i liked the first one.


i did the same thing with caesar iv.  if i had actually bought that game and been unable to play it, i would have been ****ing pissed.  now im just kind of annoyed instead.

I usually try to do that, except when I try, I usually forget to do the buy part.

[Nuclear1]

You don't deprive anyone of any money if you never had any intention of buying said CD/Book/Buttseks. Most music I download I would never think of buying, so by downloading there's simply no loss whatsoever to anyone, and a gain for myself. A truly victimless crime, like extortion, or murder.

What's your method of thinking here?  You're still downloading it and obtaining without buying it, whether you like it or not; that's exactly what I've been saying is wrong.  You gain it without the artist or producer getting anything back.

[Mefustae]

But the artist wouldn't be receiving money either way! What i'm saying is that my downloading a CD when I had no intention to buy it in no way deprives the original artist of any monies whatsoever. In fact, one may argue that when I download a CD, I may be enticed to pay for a legit version, or recommend it to my peers, thus earning the artist more money than would have originally been capable.

Anyway, all that aside, most of these people live in considerably larger houses than most and work far less than the average joe, so i'm not exactly all that enthusiastic to defend their wallets to begin with.

[Bobboau]

furthermore the downloading of the wares in no way costs the companies/individuals anything, and does not impede the sale of said wares to other people.

aside;
I have bought far more CDs sence I started downloading music than I ever would have before.

[Mefustae]

Just a thought; is borrowing a legit CD off a friend and listening to it considered piracy? What about if you sell a "legally obtained" CD in a garage sale?

[Bobboau]

what about recording off the radio?

[Mefustae]

All these examples show that pirating music is like pirating books; it just doesn't make any ****ing sense whatsoever and any complaints are unfounded and pure bull****. Seriously, let's get some proper figures not tainted by the bull****-artists in the RPAA/MPAA/ETC and see whether or not it's a serious issue, or just an urban myth perpetuated by greedy ****tards.

[Nuclear1]

Just a thought; is borrowing a legit CD off a friend and listening to it considered piracy? What about if you sell a "legally obtained" CD in a garage sale?

First:  no.  Your friend's copy was purchased, and you're not copying it, are you?  Second: no.

furthermore the downloading of the wares in no way costs the companies/individuals anything, and does not impede the sale of said wares to other people.

aside;
I have bought far more CDs sence I started downloading music than I ever would have before.

I've got no problem with try-and-buy; I've got Real Rhapsody on right this second, actually, and I always try out new CDs before going out to buy them.  What I'm against is downloading music and then not buying the CD.  Then again, I've got a very select few artists who I'll actually listen to, so I don't spend a whole lot of money buying CDs, so opinions here may vary.

[Flipside]

The problem is that there is no attempt at compromise, punters know they are getting screwed over by the Music Industry, the Music Industry knows that many people prefer to pirate music rather than buy it, and the ones that download the music know that the prices are only really an excuse because it wouldn't matter what they cost, free would be cheaper.

Until the Sabre rattling and threats and bullying stop and each one accepts that the other has a point, nothing is ever going to change.

[Bobboau]

so would it be stealing if I saw some device on sale at my local hardware store, and decided to fabricate one of my own by looking at the original and copying every part out of stuff I had around the house?

[Nuclear1]

No, that's not odd.  That's you using equipment that you've already bought to make a finished product.

Which has nothing to do with CDs and pirating music.  What you're talking about is ripping CDs and burning new ones with songs you've compiled from CDs around the house.  Nothing wrong there--you've bought the CDs.  Problem is, if seeing the shiny new device at the store is like seeing a new CD you need, then chances are you don't have the songs on that CD already, unless, of course, you download them illegally.  Either way, that's one of the oddest comparisons I've seen in a long time.

[Bobboau]

they are both examples of copying something, one case you consider it stealing another case you consider it just fine.

ok, fine, lets change it a little sence you seem to have a problem with that. ok, so lets say a friend of yours just bought the device, and you come over and take it apart and figure out how it works using all sorts of tools and raw materials and make a new one. how is that any different than going to your friend and using tools (computer/rip/burn software) and materials (blank CDRs) to make a copy of it?

[Nuclear1]

Your friend bought the device, and you took it apart to find out how it worked, and then used materials from around the house to build one yourself.  Sounds like a great learning experience, but not pirating.

The only equivalence we can get here is literally waiting on the highway until a box with the device falls off the back of a truck (or just stealing one out of the store; same difference).  That way, you don't pay for it at all, whereas with disassembling, you use stuff you've already bought to replicate it.

[Bobboau]

well what is the difference between what I described and going over to your friend's house and copying there CD?

what is the difference between going to your friend's house and copying there CD and going to a random stranger's house and (with there permission, let's say you heard the music playing outside, you went up and asked if you could make a copy) and copying there CD?

what is the difference between going over to a person's house and copying there CD and having them sending you a copy?

why would having the medium of transportation being the internet change anything?

why would making a copy of a copy be any different?

generally, every song you get off the internet came from a CD that was bought, sometimes it's from a radio, it generally was at one point in time 'legally' owned by someone.

[Blue Lion]

Because plagiarism exists.

There is a difference between making your own stuff and copying down something and claiming its yours.

[Scooby_Doo]

Just a thought; is borrowing a legit CD off a friend and listening to it considered piracy? What about if you sell a "legally obtained" CD in a garage sale?

First:  no.  Your friend's copy was purchased, and you're not copying it, are you?  Second: no.

Although for the second you could be considered a missed sale, i.e. the record label could be missing out on a sale of a new cd/tape/8-track/record

[Polpolion]

Hey, what about making 'back-up' copies of library materials? Is that okay?

[NGTM-1R]

...well crap. Suddenly I'm glad I didn't stay on with the troop as an assistant scoutmaster after turning 18.

On the other hand, it does say LA-area only, and I'm fairly certain that you can't just unilaterally declare a new badge, National has to approve it. So somebody is going to get fired.