[Snail]

I first posted this on another thread but mnyeagh.

First things first, the Shivans are a hivemind (stereotypical excuse for Shivan single mindedness).

My theory involves a 'cataclysm' which separated the Shivan fleets a long time ago (probably the destruction of several Jump Nodes simultaneously). After the cataclysm, the Shivans decided to nuke all other species because they did not want another cataclysm or something. Fortunately, the Shivans had 'backup hives' which come into motion when a fleet (or fleets) get separated from DaBrain.

The Shivans that came from Ross 128 and attacked the Terrans and Vasudans in FS1 were from a different fleet from the one in FS2. They were probably an expeditionary force which got lost after the disaster that separated the Shivans. Their fleet was very small so they decided that they had to create a sub-hive on board the Lucifer. This is why they needed to shield it and protect it so much.

It is to be noted that they are ultimately the exact same Shivans as the Shivans in FS2, they were just separated for a long time (who said that they hated these theories which say the Shivans are different? Mefustae?).

The Sathanes in FS2 were part of a larger fleet, perhaps one of the biggest Shivan fleets separated from the main one. Because the FS2 Shivans had such a large fleet already, they did not need to shield their capital ships like the Lucifer. The Comm Nodes in the second SOC loop were being used to try to communicate other Shivan fleets far away so the FS2 Shivans could join back up with them. The supernova of Capella was used as the gravitational field for the use of a super-jump node so that the FS2 Shivans could join up with some other Shivan fleet (alternatively it could be used as a beacon so the other Shivan fleets could find it, but it seems a stretch that the Shivans would blow up a star just for a signal).

This does not rule out another species the Shivans are at war with, perhaps those who caused the 'cataclysm' in the first place by using a type of super weapon to weaken the Shivans into individual fleets. Or something. Blegh.



Well, anyway, what do you think of it?

[takashi]

...Fortunately, the Shivans had 'backup hives' which come into motion when a fleet (or fleets) get separated from DaBrain.

DaBrain is going to complain about that.

[IceFire]

Interesting theory.  Its well thought out and takes into account some of the elements from the story without going completely on a limb.  I like it and I've had some similar thoughts but never put together this nicely on some of these issues.  It would explain why the two fleets have similar but occasionally different ships and also the extreme differences in behavior.  Well done sir!

[jr2]

Hmm... the part about the Shivans fighting an unknown enemy might jive with Volition's hinting that the Shivans are (IIRC) "part of a bigger problem" or something like that.

[Qwer]

Rather average theory, similar one was already discussed on fs.pl. It isn't bad, but it doesn't have anything "special", which fits beauty of FS universe. BTW Shivans don't have to be simply hive. They might be robotic beings or individualists like us, which isn't negated by the rest of your theory.

[WMCoolmon]

I think it would be much more interesting if the Bigger Problem were not just another bigger, more powerful, species. That stinks of Dragon Ball Z reasoning where the only character development is that the villains always get more powerful, and the stakes always get higher.

I always thought it would be much more interesting if the Shivans simply didn't care. One of the theories I was tossing around way back, is that the Shivans (being the 'Great Preservers'?) were embarking on some kind of mission to prevent the eventual heat-death of the universe, or to prolong the collapse of the Universe, or some other thing that would seem utterly ludicrous and impossible to us humans. But something that to the Shivans' way of thinking, would be of prime importance.

(If you are still wondering what I am going on about, think Star Trek Generations, where Soran goes on a star-nuking craze to get the Nexus to steer into a planet. Why he didn't just fly a goddamn shuttlecraft into it is beyond me, but the idea of using supernovae to alter gravitational effects could have many implications for the universe or surrounding solar systems at large.)

Of course that is not completely contradictory to what you are saying, if, for instance, the 'Cataclysm' were something like a black hole unexpectedly forming or some kind of rift in subspace swallowing a Shivan homeworld whole. (The galactic equivalent to an earthquake?)

[achtung]

The Shivans are actually on the run from a much more powerful foe, and are practicing a scorched earth policy, to prevent the enemy from using other races as manpower.  They also bombard all usable planets with their beam cannons putting them in a state of high radioactivity, preventing effective use of them for many years.

I just came up with that in about, oh say, 30 seconds.

[aldo_14]

I think it would be much more interesting if the Bigger Problem were not just another bigger, more powerful, species. That stinks of Dragon Ball Z reasoning where the only character development is that the villains always get more powerful, and the stakes always get higher.

It depends what the Bigger Problem is, though; another more powerful species is fine, if you make it symptomatic of something, like the force upon an evolutionary process for the galaxy.

[Raven2001]

The only thing I rly dont like here is the "hive" theory... heck I reckon a race as advanced as the Shivans use some other kind of society module, more advanced than simple "animalesque" societies.

In fact I prefer to think of them as an entity rather than a a species as we define such

But valid theory nonetheless

[S-99]

Hive mind doesn't mean instinctual only organisms. Unfortunately for us humans the only examples of hive minds is with stuff lifeforms as lowly as ants. I'm sure if there were sentient alien life forms with a hive mind they would operate on a hive mind and also be self thinking individuals, but always loyal to the hive mind. Sort of like the zerg overlord and the overlords cerebrates which controlled zerg forces. Of course something with the shivans would be different, perhaps they could be imagined as the borg. Or with a hivemind and every other shivan is like a cerebrate, shivans individually are in no way like or comparable to animals but as sentient life forms.

[jr2]

Maybe they are a bioweapon that someone lost control of...

Let me guess... it got smart enough to wonder why it had to follow instructions, right?

[MP-Ryan]

Very similar to ideas I've contemplated, but I have a different theory on the Lucifer.

I tend to think of the Shivans as the vacuum cleaners of the Universe, much as is contemplated at the end of FS1, but also as a species in its own right.

The real conundrum around the Shivans is the singleminded destructive desire of the Lucifer fleet, versus the odd behaviour of the Sathanas fleet.  I see the Shivans as an ancient race that seeded systems of the universe with dormant fleets designed to suppress advanced destructive species so as to preserve struggling life forms on other worlds (that much I derived from FS1).  The Lucifer came not from a mysterious node or rift in subspace but lay dormant in subspace itself within the Ross 128 system, and was triggered by Terran-Vasudan actions (which we don't know terribly much about prior to the FS1 intro video).

In contrast, I think the Sathanas fleet contains the majority of Shivans who make up the Hive mind, a majority that were isolated from their home systems after some cataclysm.  I think they've been utilizing the Knossos portals constructed by the Ancients, but are themselves cut off.  Furthermore, I think the destruction of the Capellan sun was an attempt for these ships to move across systems, perhaps even galaxies - an attempt they failed in previous in the nebula beyond gamma draconis.

Here's the interesting thing that struck me a while back - Capella was/is a binary system.  The nebula was a binary system (now it has only one sun).  The area beyond Knossos 2 is a binary system.  Now, the presence of Knossos 2 suggests that the Knossos in Gamma Draconis and the one in the nebula were constructed after the original sun in the nebula went nova and created the nebula.  Knossos 3 is in active use by the Shivans, so they don't want to wipe it out by toasting a sun.  Capella is the logical choice - create a supernova, but preserve some gravitational arrangement due to the momentary presence of the other sun, allowing the Sathanas fleet to enter subspace.

It's conjecture, but I think the binary nature of those systems is somehow important, and the sathanas fleet had entirely different objectives from the Lucifer (and different technology) implying the Lucifer is older and has a different overall purpose.

[Dysko]

The nebula was a binary system (now it has only one sun).

Maybe that only sun is a protosun formed by gravitational collapse (also protosuns emit light, right?).

[Snail]

BTW Shivans don't have to be simply hive. They might be robotic beings or individualists like us, which isn't negated by the rest of your theory.

As I said, the Shivans being a 'hive' was just something borrowed from almost all other Shivan theories, which was a good excuse for Shivan single-mindedness and will to send more and more fighters into battle, only to be blown up. Most people think that the Shivans broke down with the destruction of the Lucifer in FS1. They didn't, the Hellfire cruiser wing was trying to regroup with the main fleet. Tell me, is this not organization? This is how I made the theory of 'sub-hives.' However, the Shivans could just be a bunch of very dedicated individuals, but I personally do not like this idea.

I think it would be much more interesting if the Bigger Problem were not just another bigger, more powerful, species. That stinks of Dragon Ball Z reasoning where the only character development is that the villains always get more powerful, and the stakes always get higher.

I always thought it would be much more interesting if the Shivans simply didn't care. One of the theories I was tossing around way back, is that the Shivans (being the 'Great Preservers'?) were embarking on some kind of mission to prevent the eventual heat-death of the universe, or to prolong the collapse of the Universe, or some other thing that would seem utterly ludicrous and impossible to us humans. But something that to the Shivans' way of thinking, would be of prime importance.

Of course that is not completely contradictory to what you are saying, if, for instance, the 'Cataclysm' were something like a black hole unexpectedly forming or some kind of rift in subspace swallowing a Shivan homeworld whole. (The galactic equivalent to an earthquake?)

My theory could happen completely without the involvement of another species. I like the idea of a 'space-quake' which caused the cataclysm. Although the Shivans could rebuild nodes, something is there that is interrupting this process or something like that. The Shivan 'theories' that projected to us in FS1 were quite different from that in FS2, probably because they did not really expect a sequel when they finished off FS1. The 'Great Preservers' thing basically answered most of the questions in FS1, but many more were raised in FS2.

The cataclysm could be 'spreading' somehow and the Shivans have been driven into a state of panic, nuking all other species or something similar. This easily answers the question of a 'bigger problem.' However, if it was a campaign, it would surely be an added bonus to have a new species and not just a load of 'hide-jump-node' SEXPs.

And on a side note, I don't watch Dragon Ball Z. It's one of the things that I find just too idiotic/mindless/stupid than I can manage (did watch a few episodes with Boo (or whatever that pink thing was), but that didn't really get me hooked, did it?).