[The E]

Cos posts in GD don't count towards your postcount, and he has only posted here.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

iamzack used to start off like this as well. She did eventually squeezed in a few posts into the other boards, though.

[Researcher]

The E,

What part of "unknown by anyone in medicine or psychiatry" did you not understand? There are no studies because no one in those fields is aware that the discovery in Design was ever made.

I have personally searched the APA database and volunteers have searched it for me. Although this problem is mentioned in first semester psychology no one has realized it is a problem of physiology not office workspace.

My instructor said, "Subliminal sight caused a problem in the early days of modern office design."

There is no magic about being in an office. Those early failed designs serve as a model to tell us what to look for when searching for this phenomenon. The believed-to-be harmless mental break will happen when you create the same situation and maintain it long enough.

Furthermore any study about human behavior that did not control for Subliminal Distraction is invalid. It has always been present in any human population. Citing "studies" in this matter is pointless.

I began by searching for activities that have mental events occur with their use. Then I examined the activity for the elements of Subliminal Distraction exposure. Two activities stand out. For 2500 and 3000 years respectively QiGong and Kundalini Yoga have caused mental breaks. When the two exercises are correctly performed with eyes open meditation while preforming group unison movements they are engines for Subliminal Distraction exposure.

I defy you to find any study with that information.

The basic phenomenon falls in the explanation of how your brain works to detect movement and initiate a startle reflex. It is part of the instruction set in first semester psychology. No study is needed to verify that.

I give instructions on how to verify the problem is real and believed to be a harmless nuisance in the design of crowded offices. While not secret the information is closely  held. Only a designer working for a major office furniture manufacturer or one their dealers will have that information. That's why it is unknown any where else.

When I posted questions on-line I was accused of being an attorney trying to get information for a lawsuit. That page is linked near the top of my home page.

The site is my Internet scratch pad to store information so I would not have to carry papers and notes everywhere I traveled working on the project. It was never intended to be a professional presentation.

You are either intelligent enough to personally evaluate the information on your own or you are not.  (No slight intended.)

My original plan was that a major university would take over the project if I could gather a preponderance of evidence.  But there is a problem with that. None of them want to investigate something that reveals they missed something that was discovered and solved forty years ago and is probably responsible for student disappearances and suicides. The Virginia Tech shooter created exposure according to interviews of two roommates. They didn't understand what they saw but reported he sat in the suite common using his laptop ignoring all of them as they walked past him. I have two reply letters from Tech promising to investigate but the disappearance and recovery of a cadet last week shows they did nothing to warn students there.

Original work in psychology does not always have previous studies available.

[The E]

The E,

What part of "unknown by anyone in medicine or psychiatry" did you not understand? There are no studies because no one in those fields is aware that the discovery in Design was ever made.

I have personally searched the APA database and volunteers have searched it for me. Although this problem is mentioned in first semester psychology no one has realized it is a problem of physiology not office workspace.

If it is mentioned in 1st Semester courses, there should be studies, no? Unless psychology is even more of a joke science than I remember...

My instructor said, "Subliminal sight caused a problem in the early days of modern office design."

There is no magic about being in an office. Those early failed designs serve as a model to tell us what to look for when searching for this phenomenon. The believed-to-be harmless mental break will happen when you create the same situation and maintain it long enough.

Furthermore any study about human behavior that did not control for Subliminal Distraction is invalid. It has always been present in any human population. Citing "studies" in this matter is pointless.

Errr.....So.....You are saying prior studies are invalid because they didn't take this new magic discovery of yours into account?

I began by searching for activities that have mental events occur with their use. Then I examined the activity for the elements of Subliminal Distraction exposure. Two activities stand out. For 2500 and 3000 years respectively QiGong and Kundalini Yoga have caused mental breaks. When the two exercises are correctly performed with eyes open meditation while preforming group unison movements they are engines for Subliminal Distraction exposure.

I defy you to find any study with that information.

It is not my job to find them. You are the one who wants to be taken seriously; and serious science has certain prerequisites. Such as the hallowed principle of peer review, which you don't seem to understand. Until you can point out peer-reviewed pieces to support your hypothesis, you can not make claims like "all prior results are invalid".

The basic phenomenon falls in the explanation of how your brain works to detect movement and initiate a startle reflex. It is part of the instruction set in first semester psychology. No study is needed to verify that.

I give instructions on how to verify the problem is real and believed to be a harmless nuisance in the design of crowded offices. While not secret the information is closely  held. Only a designer working for a major office furniture manufacturer or one their dealers will have that information. That's why it is unknown any where else.

Ah, yes, and those guys are known for their trade secrets and highly efficient confidentiality protocols, not to mention the squads of ninjas deployed to keep this a secret.

When I posted questions on-line I was accused of being an attorney trying to get information for a lawsuit. That page is linked near the top of my home page.

The site is my Internet scratch pad to store information so I would not have to carry papers and notes everywhere I traveled working on the project. It was never intended to be a professional presentation.

You are either intelligent enough to personally evaluate the information on your own or you are not.  (No slight intended.)

I can honestly say that I probably wouldn't be qualified to make a statement about this. A properly conducted study, reviewed by acknowledged experts in the field, that's something I might take serious. 
A badly designed website, with no sources cited, no proper attribution, and a bunch of typographic mistakes that push it squarely into TL;DR territory? Not so much.

My original plan was that a major university would take over the project if I could gather a preponderance of evidence.  But there is a problem with that. None of them want to investigate something that reveals they missed something that was discovered and solved forty years ago and is probably responsible for student disappearances and suicides. The Virginia Tech shooter created exposure according to interviews of two roommates. They didn't understand what they saw but reported he sat in the suite common using his laptop ignoring all of them as they walked past him. I have two reply letters from Tech promising to investigate but the disappearance and recovery of a cadet last week shows they did nothing to warn students there.

You do not understand the scientific process, do you?

Original work in psychology does not always have previous studies available.

Neither does original work in Math, chemistry, biology or any other field you care to name. What most original scientific work does have, however, is credentials. It has an author, it has people associated with it other than the guy with the original idea, it has all the proper paperwork that turns a random hypothesis into a scientific theory. Where is your experimental data? Where are your studies? Where are the double-blind tests? Where are the statistics showing your position to be plausible? How do you expect anyone to believe this, if all you have is all the evidentiary basis of the common UFO conspiracy theorist?

[General Battuta]

I don't think this is going to be a productive discussion. Let's move on.

[vyper]

Of course it's spreading - stupidity is contagious.

[Ghostavo]

What's with HLP and wierdoes?

First judgefloro and now this guy?

[S-99]

Researcher seems a little awkward. Subliminal messaging does exist. It exists in many forms. Being able to cause psychosis, i'm not really thinking so. Subliminal messages are exact messages whether it be visual or audio. Subliminal messaging is about getting people to do what you want; you hear eat "eat cheezy poofs", and you don't go psycho and off yourself.

I see someone committing suicide due to a subliminal message that told them to commit suicide. Subliminal messages are instructions, they are exact statements telling you to do or not do something, and they are placed by somebody on purpose. Just randomly going psycho from a subliminal message doesn't really hold up if said message was "mommy says play more everquest", "eat more pie", and "virginia tech says kill yourself". None of these subliminal messages i don't think would make one go psycho. If all subliminal messages were heard, then virginia tech johnny is just going to kill himself after playing more everquest and eating more pie. Remember, you got these from your peripheral vision in Researcher's case. You got to have some nice peripheral vision for that.

Someone to go psycho from subliminal messaging? It'd have to be one amazing subliminal message that was short, to the point, and had all the details of how a psychotic person acts.

I don't think virginia tech's interest is in the business of killing students, after all, they do make a bucket of money off of every student that goes there. There are other reasons for someone having a psychotic break that are true, believable, and are common.

Anyway, that's my understanding of it

[The E]

This whole subliminal messaging thing is severely overrated, as far as I understand it. Basically, you might be able to put a thought into the subjects mind ("Eat more popcorn" and the like), but stuff like "go crazy" or "commit suicide"? That's waaaaayyyyy out there in the realm of paranoid delusions.

[Nuke]

i dont need to wear a tinfoil hat, i had depleted uranium plates installed in my skull.

Researcher seems a little awkward. Subliminal messaging does exist. It exists in many forms. Being able to cause psychosis, i'm not really thinking so. Subliminal messages are exact messages whether it be visual or audio. Subliminal messaging is about getting people to do what you want; you hear eat "eat cheezy poofs", and you don't go psycho and off yourself.

I see someone committing suicide due to a subliminal message that told them to commit suicide. Subliminal messages are instructions, they are exact statements telling you to do or not do something, and they are placed by somebody on purpose. Just randomly going psycho from a subliminal message doesn't really hold up if said message was "mommy says play more everquest", "eat more pie", and "virginia tech says kill yourself". None of these subliminal messages i don't think would make one go psycho. If all subliminal messages were heard, then virginia tech johnny is just going to kill himself after playing more everquest and eating more pie. Remember, you got these from your peripheral vision in Researcher's case. You got to have some nice peripheral vision for that.

Someone to go psycho from subliminal messaging? It'd have to be one amazing subliminal message that was short, to the point, and had all the details of how a psychotic person acts.

I don't think virginia tech's interest is in the business of killing students, after all, they do make a bucket of money off of every student that goes there. There are other reasons for someone having a psychotic break that are true, believable, and are common.

Anyway, that's my understanding of it

i dont think individual messages can make soemone go insane, but being bombarded with often conflicting messages has to have some psychological effect. it would need to be a lot, they would need to come from everywhere, and they should severly conflict with eachother. still i dont think the effect would be very severe. i dont know if this idea has ever been tested scientifically.

[S-99]

This whole subliminal messaging thing is severely overrated, as far as I understand it. Basically, you might be able to put a thought into the subjects mind ("Eat more popcorn" and the like), but stuff like "go crazy" or "commit suicide"? That's waaaaayyyyy out there in the realm of paranoid delusions.

Sort of like me, except i think the stuff that i think is in the realm of paranoid delusions is just out of nowhere becoming psychotic from subliminal messaging. You hear the subliminal message "mom says eat more pie", you go crazy, and then you off yourself. It just doesn't sound like it'd be even close to being part of the realm of subliminal messaging, unless we had the stuff that i agree with you is also part of the realm of paranoid delusions. Somehow, receiving a subliminal message that is short, to the point, but has instructions for telling you how to behave like a psychopatch and to off yourself.

You just cant keep a message like that short, even if maybe to the point, and sounds too complicated to put into a subliminal message. I don't think the 100% subliminal paragraph or more would be successful.

[NGTM-1R]

He's not even talking about subliminal messaging either; it's "Subliminal Distraction".

If this were actually true, considering the placement of my computer and the fact I see any movement in the kitchen in my peripheral vision when I'm using it at home, I should be completely bat**** insane by now.

[Nuke]

its kind of hard to focus on something when theres a voice in the back of my head telling me to burn things, little tricks of light at the corner of my monitor do nothing. beside, its huge, theres a wall behinf it, and the only thing that comes in on the sides is usually a cat, in which case i can be distracted for a whole hour and a half in some cases.

[General Battuta]

I know of very little evidence that subliminal priming can influence long term behaviors. It is effective on very short timescales but its impact on behavior drops off rapidly after exposure.

[MP-Ryan]

I know of very little evidence that subliminal priming can influence long term behaviors. It is effective on very short timescales but its impact on behavior drops off rapidly after exposure.

Ditto.  Actually, as for the subliminal distraction bit, I was fully prepared to toss a bull**** flag on Researcher unless he can provide some backup - I have taken a fair number of psych courses (seeing as one of my University degrees has a psychology minor) and a lot of what he's spouting reads to me as unfounded nonsense.  Then again, I seem to recall your focus of study is/was in psychology, so perhaps you know better than I do.

[S-99]

He's not even talking about subliminal messaging either; it's "Subliminal Distraction".

If this were actually true, considering the placement of my computer and the fact I see any movement in the kitchen in my peripheral vision when I'm using it at home, I should be completely bat**** insane by now.

Yes, all of us would be bat**** insane in that case. Still really, subliminal peripheral distraction. I don't really see what's so subliminal about it. It's something that's happening that you can see in your peripheral vision. Subliminal periphery distraction says you should be worried for a psychotic break when you've learned to ignore distractions in your peripheral vision. It's stupid, we humans when in the same environment (such as a work environment) for a long time learn to simply not be distracted by a bunch of similar happenings because they happen all the time, and most of the time it's same stuff. Because they happen all the time doesn't mean that each and every single distraction warrants being paid attention to.

The word subliminal with distraction being attached to it isn't correct unless you were receiving some kind of subliminal messages via the distractions in your peripheral vision that you either ignore, or don't feel it warrants  your attention. Distractions via your peripheral vision causing psychosis....must attach subliminal stigma to it to get attention.

That's the whole reason i mention the whole subliminal messaging thing NGTM-1R. Because as far as distractions happening in your peripheral vision being subliminal (someone could be eating cake in your peripheral vision while you're on the computer, and you choose to ignore, and later you're not eating cake), they're just things that happen in your peripheral vision which doesn't make them subliminal stimuli unless they were actual subliminal stimuli. My whole thing is about the word subliminal being attached to peripheral psychosis not being correct (unless any kind of distraction happening in your peripheral vision is universally subliminal to all humans broadcasting the message "go ape **** and off yourself").

[Grizzly]

i dont think individual messages can make soemone go insane, but being bombarded with often conflicting messages has to have some psychological effect. it would need to be a lot, they would need to come from everywhere, and they should severly conflict with eachother.

Doesn't this happen in any place which lacks any form of command structure? Because in those cases, I do get quite cross...

[S-99]

Understandable. Sort of like when i had my old job with two bosses. Both had two different ways of getting things done, and both told me that i should do it "this" way. Ideally i just opted for the more competent boss for telling me how to do things since he was more practical and had great reasons that made life easier. Then that conflicted with my other boss that had a certain way of doing things that i discovered were horrible, but a break down in the way he did things would make the place become sloppy.

There was not much reason to keep inventory on hard copy when you mainly keep it digitally that gets weekly backups. Ironically the hard copy inventory was pretty spotty, most likely due to the workers who had the same job before i did for the same reason. So, went my job for doing inventory x2 since then on. And so went on, "oh don't worry about doing hard copy, those are pointless", they are pointless, but it's worth keeping my job to do it.

The other thing of the matter is that some people really do go ape **** from constant distractions that happen around them. Constant distractions even if just in your peripheral vision for a lot of people are distracting for different people. For a lot of people it's heavily distracting, and i would expect them to go ape ****. They would be candidates for a cubicle as opposed to seeing the person 2 desks over complaining about the community copier/printer not working for the 20th time in the day because of the same problem that no ones getting through their heads despite a post it note saying out of order.

Subliminal, no. Becoming seriously annoyed to just lose it from petty **** happening around you...yes. Losing touch with reality and having a mental break resulting in withdrawal from society and becoming unsocial? I have no idea, probably depends a lot on that person's quality of life and how their mind works.