[Scotty]

If you catch them, crisis averted.

If you don't, it's no worse than what they were going to try in the first place.

Of course, that's assuming you don't knock them off yourself, but I find that significantly less likely than either of the above.

[General Battuta]

If you catch them, crisis averted.

If you don't, it's no worse than what they were going to try in the first place.

Of course, that's assuming you don't knock them off yourself, but I find that significantly less likely than either of the above.

It's that last sentence of your post I'm worried about.

[Kolgena]

If you touched them, and they fall off immediately after, I think legally (in North America at least) the family could charge you with manslaughter or something similar.

[redsniper]

Yeah, I think you guys are underestimating the inertia of even a small person and how easily one can fall from a precarious position.

[DarkBasilisk]

Agreed. The guy in the video lucked out since he surprised her, was bigger, was above her, and had a railing between him and her to anchor himself to. He made the right choice since he had some clear advantages in a contest of force between her. You'd have to be more cautious if you're on even ground with the person, since most of the time all that'll be keeping *you* on the ledge is the friction between the ground and your feet... Not to mention as Dilmah says, if they see you coming and you move towards them, there's no telling what they might do while scared.

Also thanks Dilmah and CDJ, it's really cool to log back on and see that

[Polpolion]

i would have helped in a different kinda way, by pushing.

Suicide prevented! FOREVER!

[Nuke]

i would have helped in a different kinda way, by pushing.

Suicide prevented! FOREVER!

dont get me wrong. i fully believe that anyone who wants to self terminate should have the right to do so, and furthermore society should help them do it. we have made it something criminal, something that they would lock you up for. you saw how the cops busted her to the ground like a violent crack whore at the end of the clip. no doubt they would stick her in a cold cell by herself with no bedding or blankets and wearing one of those paper outfits they make suicidal people wear so they cant hang themselves with it. then on top of that they will charge her with a bunch of bogus charges, like trespassing, reckless endangerment, disturbing the peace, etc. making them feel like criminals is no way to treat them. then you stick them into a poorly funded state run mental institution. theyve had enough **** happen to them, they dont need anymore.

no instead of running to the nearest bridge, you run to a suicide clinic, where everyone supports your decision, gives you a clean way out, a surefire way to go. let em bring their friends and family if they want, and give em as much time as they need. when they push the red button, they die shortly there after. of course in this kind of environment they are likely to have second thoughts and decide not to go.

its somewhat barbaric the way we treat our mentally ill. they want to kill themselves and we want them locked up so they dont harm us. sounds rather selfish to me.

[Thaeris]

I may not fully agree with you on all points, Nuke, but that is certainly an interesting perspective.

I for one do not support assisted suicide or suicide in general. As one who was pretty close to committing suicide once, I think I can make that stance with a degree of credence. However, I do agree with you fully on the matter of treatment. Those people have problems, and I can empathize with them. If they can be stopped from killing themselves in time, they ought to be better treated.

...Of course, it may help to do a bit more research into what a person who is stopped from committing suicide is charged with and how they are dealt with legally before making such a blanket statement. The reasons for the action must also be worthy of consideration in dealing with prevented suicides, etc., etc.

[DarkBasilisk]

I'm inclined agree at least a little with Nuke. I couldn't help but being a little shocked about wrestling her to the ground after-wards. It's not exactly like she was a big person, after they got her away from the ledge there was no need for heavy restraint. There needs to be a very caring approach taken right after preventing a suicide. Otherwise, all you tell the person is they better just do it faster/more direct, the next time they get a chance.

Although, I think immediately agreeing to let someone kill themselves would be just as wrong as forever preventing them from doing it. People can change their minds, and they should be encouraged to really consider what they're doing before going down that road. Something *along the lines* of being allowed to do it, but only after waiting two years and meeting with a therapist (note: NOT confined to an institution unless the person chooses so).

I can get where Nuke is coming from. Say you have someone in an institution that's resisted all treatment, and over a 5 year period has repeatedly tried to kill themselves via any means possible, showing not even the slightest sign of letting up. Forcing someone like that to stay alive is just cruel, especially considering the only way you could keep them alive is by subjecting them to an immense deal of restraint and imprisonment.

[iamzack]

Pff, I'd kill myself right away if I thought I was about to be put back in an institution, whether I was suicidal at the time or not. Those places are pretty much the opposite of a good idea if you want someone to stop being suicidal.

[Nuke]

I for one do not support assisted suicide or suicide in general. As one who was pretty close to committing suicide once, I think I can make that stance with a degree of credence. However, I do agree with you fully on the matter of treatment. Those people have problems, and I can empathize with them. If they can be stopped from killing themselves in time, they ought to be better treated.

ive also had at least one friend kill themselves. i also had one mentally unstable ex girlfriend who has first hand experience on how cops treat the insane. keep in mind that (at least in the us) if the cops arrest someone attempting suicide, until they see a judge, they are still treated as a potential criminal (also suicide is still illegal in the us). they are usually isolated and put under a suicide watch until that happens. maybe if they are lucky they will have a jail shrink on hand. might work differently in other states, but i cant see it being that different.

...Of course, it may help to do a bit more research into what a person who is stopped from committing suicide is charged with and how they are dealt with legally before making such a blanket statement. The reasons for the action must also be worthy of consideration in dealing with prevented suicides, etc., etc.

it would help, and id be happy to eyeball the results of such research. but ive not time for that kind of intellectual wankery. we cant all afford to act like college students forever, no work would ever get done (not that i do any). first hand anecdotal evidence is all i need to notice a pattern. i might not be able to say that its a totally accurate picture, but its enough that i can tell that suicidal people arent treated too well.

Although, I think immediately agreeing to let someone kill themselves would be just as wrong as forever preventing them from doing it. People can change their minds, and they should be encouraged to really consider what they're doing before going down that road. Something *along the lines* of being allowed to do it, but only after waiting two years and meeting with a therapist (note: NOT confined to an institution unless the person chooses so).

yea, its probably not a good idea to hook them up to a death rig and toss em a button as soon as they walk in the door. should probibly give them a week to think it over in a safe, comfortable environment, and give them access to shrinks and therapists. they would be allowed to leave at any time. of course after this consideration period, they should be allowed to carry out the suicide whenever they want, or stay a little longer. not too much longer, the cost of running such a thing would be huge, and there would be those who would take advantage of it by falsely claiming to be suicidal.

Pff, I'd kill myself right away if I thought I was about to be put back in an institution, whether I was suicidal at the time or not. Those places are pretty much the opposite of a good idea if you want someone to stop being suicidal.

this^

[DarkBasilisk]

Yea. i've talked to some other people that have been in institutions, and i think they'd agree with zack's sentiment

[karajorma]

If you catch them, crisis averted.

If you don't, it's no worse than what they were going to try in the first place.

Actually many people climb back over and decide not to jump. In which case you've just pushed someone to their death who would have lived if you'd done nothing.

[Scotty]

Then why intervene at all, which I'm assuming is what most people think one should do?

[iamzack]

to avoid feeling guilty if you have the opportunity to intervene, don't, and they jump

[Scotty]

**** that, I'm not going to feel guilty if they're intent on doing themselves in.  And if they jump, they obviously are.

I have surmised from this thread that intervening is more risky than just letting them do whatever.  Good to know.

[Qent]

**** that, I'm not going to feel guilty if they're intent on doing themselves in.  And if they jump, they obviously are.

I have surmised from this thread that intervening is more risky than just letting them do whatever.  Good to know.

Maybe intervening physically. A few well-chosen words could still work. If you're worried about saying the wrong thing, I've heard that cold readers can figure out amazing things about a person.

@iamzack I'm sure you'd do fine.

[karajorma]

**** that, I'm not going to feel guilty if they're intent on doing themselves in.  And if they jump, they obviously are.

I have surmised from this thread that intervening is more risky than just letting them do whatever.  Good to know.

Intervene physically if the odds are in your favour. You were saying intervene physically even if they're not cause so what if someone falls to their death cause of you, they were going to do that anyway. I was pointing out that perhaps they weren't and you've basically killed someone.

Suicide prevention is a very delicate matter, you can't charge in like a bull in a china shop. If that is the only tactic you are capable of, then you should stay out of it. You're obviously the Arnold Rimmer of HLP if that's all you can do.

    Rimmer: I used to be in the Samaritans.
    Lister: I know. For one morning.
    Rimmer: I couldn't take any more.
    Lister: I don't blame you. You spoke to five people and they all committed suicide. I wouldn't mind, but one was a wrong number! He only phoned up for the cricket scores!