Author Topic: The Army dropped the charges against the Muslim chaplain  (Read 1160 times)

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Offline Grey Wolf

The Army dropped the charges against the Muslim chaplain
http://www.syracuse.com/newsflash/topstories/index.ssf?/base/politics-2/1079742260292641.xml

Just as a question for anyone with experience in the US military. Does the evidence used in a court martial get released to the general public? And if it isn't, then how could the reason given my Gen. Miller hold up to scrutiny?
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Offline Rictor

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The Army dropped the charges against the Muslim chaplain
OK, this is bound to kick up the same old stuff, so might as well start it off.

I for one, would like to know why he was court martialed when his only crime was complying with the Constitution and his own morals. From what I understand, he was caught smuglling out a lists of prisoners and some basic info on them, such as how long they were held, age and so forth. This is in accordance with every due process law in existance.

 
The Army dropped the charges against the Muslim chaplain
either that, or someone wanted acces to his laptop for the porn...

all joking aside, this seems more political bull then anything else.
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Offline Liberator

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The Army dropped the charges against the Muslim chaplain
The problem arises from the fact that he is/was a member of the United States army and has certain responsibilities that come with that, including not divulging information to the enemy.  Any information he told "family" in his role as chaplain may have eventually gotten back to people who would use it to determine troop movements and complement.  So, yes, he should be court marshalled, and maybe just let off lightly at sentencing.

The idea that he should get off due to politics shows how bloody broken the system is.  The armed forces only answer to one civilian ultimately and he has an oval office on Pennsylvania Avenue.  They do not take orders from any other civilians Senators and Representatives included.
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Many names, but always me.

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Offline mikhael

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The Army dropped the charges against the Muslim chaplain
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
OK, this is bound to kick up the same old stuff, so might as well start it off.

I for one, would like to know why he was court martialed when his only crime was complying with the Constitution and his own morals. From what I understand, he was caught smuglling out a lists of prisoners and some basic info on them, such as how long they were held, age and so forth. This is in accordance with every due process law in existance.


First off, you're misunderstanding his position. As a chaplain, due process is not his province. Period. He may have been adhering to his own morals, but he was NOT adhering to the Constitution.

Second, prisoners held by the military are, unfortunately, in a dubious position, especially the non-US citizens. Whether the Constitution applies to them in the first place is a sticky question. Further, the US Federal Government has made the case that due process and speedy trials only applys to people accused of a crime. These people are not being held as criminals, and thus have not been charged with anything. They've been held on the pretext that they are or may be material witnesses.

Third, taking lists of prisoners and any information about them, period, is a violation of operational security requirements, his duty as a military officer--and have no doubt, the uniform comes before the crescent faith badge on it--and the standing orders of his entire chain of command.

In short: the guy got court-martialed on acceptable grounds with the rules and regulation laid out in the Uniform Code of Military Justice. I suggest, before you question the legality of the proceedings, you give the UCMJ and the judicial regs of the US Army and the Department of Defense a careful reading.

Generally, courts-martial proceedings are not given to the general public, unless the defendent chooses to make them public. Even then, if there are national security concerns, they will not be made public. However, there is a concern that the defendent might insist on a civilian lawyer (which is his right), which would then require the lawyer to be someone who has or can obtain a security clearance.

The Department of Defense has maintained that any information that might come from these 'material witnesses' could jeapardize national security concerns and has used that as a means to deny them access to non-military legal personnel. That would possibly apply in this case as well, to the chaplain.

And before anyone goes off half cocked--I am not stating my own opinions here. I'm giving you the straight dope on how the military sees and justifies a situation like this.
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Offline Lonestar

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The Army dropped the charges against the Muslim chaplain
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael


First off, you're misunderstanding his position. As a chaplain, due process is not his province. Period. He may have been adhering to his own morals, but he was NOT adhering to the Constitution.

Second, prisoners held by the military are, unfortunately, in a dubious position, especially the non-US citizens. Whether the Constitution applies to them in the first place is a sticky question. Further, the US Federal Government has made the case that due process and speedy trials only applys to people accused of a crime. These people are not being held as criminals, and thus have not been charged with anything. They've been held on the pretext that they are or may be material witnesses.

Third, taking lists of prisoners and any information about them, period, is a violation of operational security requirements, his duty as a military officer--and have no doubt, the uniform comes before the crescent faith badge on it--and the standing orders of his entire chain of command.

In short: the guy got court-martialed on acceptable grounds with the rules and regulation laid out in the Uniform Code of Military Justice. I suggest, before you question the legality of the proceedings, you give the UCMJ and the judicial regs of the US Army and the Department of Defense a careful reading.

Generally, courts-martial proceedings are not given to the general public, unless the defendent chooses to make them public. Even then, if there are national security concerns, they will not be made public. However, there is a concern that the defendent might insist on a civilian lawyer (which is his right), which would then require the lawyer to be someone who has or can obtain a security clearance.

The Department of Defense has maintained that any information that might come from these 'material witnesses' could jeapardize national security concerns and has used that as a means to deny them access to non-military legal personnel. That would possibly apply in this case as well, to the chaplain.

And before anyone goes off half cocked--I am not stating my own opinions here. I'm giving you the straight dope on how the military sees and justifies a situation like this.


I love how people justify things with man made laws

 

Offline karajorma

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The Army dropped the charges against the Muslim chaplain
Quote
Originally posted by Lonestar
I love how people justify things with man made laws


Well said. It's okay for everyone at Guantanamo Bay to break the law by keeping the prisonners there in the first place and torture and beat them but if someone says that they are doing that he's an enemy of the country and needs to be court-martialled :rolleyes:
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Offline Zeronet

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The Army dropped the charges against the Muslim chaplain
Quote
Originally posted by Lonestar


I love how people justify things with man made laws


:wtf: is that suppose to mean?
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Offline mikhael

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The Army dropped the charges against the Muslim chaplain
Note that I very carefully do not give my opinion on the whole situation at Guantanamo. I only answer the original question without injecting editorial. If you'd like, I can give you a Constitutionalist opinion on the situation with our current federal government and the situation in Iraq, Guantanamo, and Afghanistan.
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Offline karajorma

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The Army dropped the charges against the Muslim chaplain
Neither myself nor Lonestar said our comments were aimed at you either.
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Offline Liberator

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The Army dropped the charges against the Muslim chaplain
Not out loud.  Besides, I'm the only one that's allowed to bug mik about stuff like this. ;)
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.