[General Freak]

Originally posted by vyper

[sarchasm] Yes because it's failed us in the past hasn't it?  [/sarchasm] [/B]

Might I point out that WWI started because of patriotism. None of the countries were willing to step down in case of humiliation. What appeared to be a small war between Austria-Hungary and Serbia resulted in a Russian mobilisation and a declaration of war on France and Russia by Germany. Maybe patriotism isn't the right word, but rather nationalism. Both are a bit 'aggresive' IMO, and I see no reason why mingling with everyone else shouldn't be preferred over patriotism, except when your country is attacked and is in danger.

[Kosh]

or to put it another way: the whole world is becoming a United States of Earth, Europe is just doing it quicker.

Here's a better name for it: The Galactic Terran Alliance.

[General Freak]

Didn't the Galactic Terran Alliance come first? And isn't Delta Serpentis the capital planet for the terrans in GTVA? No Earth involved.

[Ace]

The GTA was the result of the slow formations of the nation state, superstate, and then world state.

We're in the throes of the superstates. Wait 100 years for the GTA

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by General Freak


Might I point out that WWI started because of patriotism. None of the countries were willing to step down in case of humiliation. What appeared to be a small war between Austria-Hungary and Serbia resulted in a Russian mobilisation and a declaration of war on France and Russia by Germany. Maybe patriotism isn't the right word, but rather nationalism. Both are a bit 'aggresive' IMO, and I see no reason why mingling with everyone else shouldn't be preferred over patriotism, except when your country is attacked and is in danger.

That's sort of simplifying the issue, though; the reason for the escalation of a regional war/occupation by A-H into a pan-european war was as much down to the Alliance system as any form of nationalism.

[Kosh]

That's sort of simplifying the issue, though; the reason for the escalation of a regional war/occupation by A-H into a pan-european war was as much down to the Alliance system as any form of nationalism.

There are multiple causes for it. One of them was the alliance system. One of the others was nationalism. Nationalism is what started it, but the alliance system only made it worse.


World War 2 on the other hand was caused mainly by nationalism and ethnocentrism.


The bottom line is that nationalism is nothing but trouble.

[General Freak]

Originally posted by aldo_14


That's sort of simplifying the issue, though; the reason for the escalation of a regional war/occupation by A-H into a pan-european war was as much down to the Alliance system as any form of nationalism.

But actually, none of the alliance's were binding. Look at the Triple Alliance, and Italy declaring war AGAINST Germany and Austira-Hungary on 1915. Neither Britain or France took action when Germany declared war on Russia, their ally. France did nothing except wait for German to make the first move and Britain went to war because of the 1839 Treaty of Westminster and not because of any recent alliances. The only thing about the alliance system was that people THOUGHT that if one country went to war, its allies would join in and also that it just posed as a very clear threat/target (like East vs West in the Cold War).

[aldo_14]

If you note that firstly, Serbia was nominally allied with Russia over the annexation of Bosnia, then that gives a key impetus to the initial outbreak of war.  And the alliance system, as you pointed out, cause pre-emptive declarations of war.  The Italians also had a 1902 agreement with France which effectively removed them from the Triple Alliance with Germany and AH.

And there's the other issues such as British opposition to Germanys colonial and naval expansion; i.e. it's not solely down to nationalism IMO, but multiple political, military and social factors on top.