[Kosh]

What do you think of it?


I personally keep hearing things like "the EU is crumbling" and "there will never be a 'United States of Europe'" because of this, but I think that's BS. I think it's going to happen, but it might take one or two rounds of no votes before they get it right.

[Rictor]

The EU will go ahead, no matter what anyone thinks. It's too far along to be stopped now. The no votes may delay it a bit, or may slightly change the terms under which Europe become a superstate, but barring a not-too-minor miracle, it's bound to happen.

[kasperl]

I doubt there will be a United States of Europe any time soon, basicly because the current EU is much more of an alliance then a federal government.

[MatthewPapa]

It will happen within our lifetime I bet.

[Primus]

It's good that they voted no. I don't support the law and I don't want to see USE. I already hate €uros. Feels like the independence is taken away bit by bit.

[achtung]

It's inevitable, I'm just glad to see somebody is catching on to hopefully compete even more with the chinese and the U.S. as well.  I don't mean Cold War but a little economic competition never hurt anyone.....  wait I take that back.

[Kosh]

Originally posted by Primus
It's good that they voted no. I don't support the law and I don't want to see USE. I already hate €uros. Feels like the independence is taken away bit by bit.

Why? The EU is really europe's only hope of competing in a meaningful way with the US and China. With the exception of Germany, the economies (both current and potential) of the countries within the Eurozone are pretty insignificant compared to the present US economy or the potential chinese economy.

[vyper]

There will never be a United States of Europe... because despite the hype the people of Britain won't stand for it.

[Primus]

I hope you're right. I don't understand why we have to have the same things to be an union... And I do support EU, but not this way.

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by vyper
There will never be a United States of Europe... because despite the hype the people of Britain won't stand for it.

Still, if it came down to it, and there was enough solid continental support, surely Britain could just be excluded (or, more accurately, opt out).

[MatthewPapa]

Originally posted by Primus
I hope you're right. I don't understand why we have to have the same things to be an union... And I do support EU, but not this way.

I agree.

History rarely repeats but sometimes it rhyms.

I dont live in Europe, neither have I ever been to europe but from what I see their struggle to unify seems strikingly similiar to the 13 American colonies trying to form their union. I also see an inevitable roadblock, the same one suffered by the USA in the 1860's.  If the countries of Europe do manage to forge a confederation then they should be cautious to do it in such a way that they dont piss off a good majority of Europe. The consequences of a hasty or unsatisfactory union could be drastic.

*anticipates the great civil war of Europe, 2012*

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by MatthewPapa


I agree.

History rarely repeats but sometimes it rhyms.

I dont live in Europe, neither have I ever been to europe but from what I see their struggle to unify seems strikingly similiar to the 13 American colonies trying to form their union. I also see an inevitable roadblock, the same one suffered by the USA in the 1860's.  If the countries of Europe do manage to forge a confederation then they should be cautious to do it in such a way that they dont piss off a good majority of Europe. The consequences of a hasty or unsatisfactory union could be drastic.

*anticipates the great civil war of Europe, 2012*

Except for the, you know, several thousand years of history as independent nations. Otherwise you're spot on.

[NGTM-1R]

Europe's already had several civil wars, anyways...

[vyper]

Originally posted by Black Wolf


Still, if it came down to it, and there was enough solid continental support, surely Britain could just be excluded (or, more accurately, opt out).

Big loss(!). Look at the Eurozone's economies to find out why.

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by vyper


Big loss(!). Look at the Eurozone's economies to find out why.

I'm not saying that it'd be ideal, but if it comes down to it, surely United Europe without Britain (though presumably with some kind of opt in reaty thingo or whatever) is better than no United Europe at all.

[WMCoolmon]

Originally posted by Black Wolf


Except for the, you know, several thousand years of history as independent nations. Otherwise you're spot on.

It's less than 2000. Britain was part of the Roman empire.

But yeah, there's a lot of history there that I doubt people will just give up. I've never been to Europe, so this is said with a certain amount of uncertainty, but I'd sooner give odds of Europe economically collapsing and reforming into one big country than I would of it merging peacefully. After all, the EU is better off economically than the US right now.

[vyper]

Ahum *coughs*

England was part of the Roman empire. They met the scots and shat a brick (to use a nice glasgow expression). Hence why there's a big wall mid way up the UK

[Kosh]

From what I've been reading about the referdum results, a minority are actually afraid of losing "sovereign right" and "nationality". The reason it was rejected in France was because they thought there was too much free marketism and not enough worker protections or something like that.

[Nico]

There's more resons to that than just these two, but I'm kindda fed up hearing about that topic: so it got a "no"? Too bad ( I voted yes), but life goes on, Europe will certainly not crumble from the dismissal of a new treaty, and, btw, there will never be a USE, France wouldn't go with that (deGaules refused the joined european army back then especially for that reason, and that's why we got the EEC, an economic alliance, instead).
Oh and England has been part of France for hundreds of years, too, thanks to king William ( MWAHAHAHAHAHA! )

[karajorma]

Whose ancestors made France into Denmark's bi*ch first.

I guess both our countries are actually Danish by your logic then