Author Topic: World Police...  (Read 3329 times)

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Offline Grug

  • 211
  • From the ashes...
This thread title reminds me of a song

America! **** Yeah!
Comin again to save the mother****ing day, yeah!
*slaps the lot of you*
That was an intentional plug to team america sillys! :rolleyes:


I mostly agree with what Rictor has been saying.

@nuclear1, somewhat true, but should a policy of paranoia and preemptive strikes be allowed for a might be?
Sure if conclusive evidence is submitted, (unlike WMD bull****) but they (and the coalition for that matter) should act with the UN's majority agreement.
Better to go down in history as a benevolent powerful nation rather than a tyrant / regime like one.

I still fully consider the possibility that in the years to come, Bush, and other members of the Coalition may very well be trialed for war crimes...

 

Offline Nuclear1

  • 211
Forget America, Israel is quite capable of defending itself. And if Iran annouced tommorow that they had a nuke, by tommorow afternoon you would likely see Israeli airstrikes. Remember, Israel has nukes too, and some of the best anti-missle technologies in the world. They're not defenceless, and the entire Middle East knows this.  Attacking, even with conventional weapons, would be signing the death warrant for whichever regime backed the attack.

True, Israel is capable of defending itself, but that's not to say that America won't take the opportunity to do some damage to Iran on its own. Conclusive evidence that would lead to an Israeli air raid on an Iranian reactor would undoubtedly give America the excuse it needs to launch an attack.

Quote
@nuclear1, somewhat true, but should a policy of paranoia and preemptive strikes be allowed for a might be?
Sure if conclusive evidence is submitted, (unlike WMD bull****) but they (and the coalition for that matter) should act with the UN's majority agreement.

Agreed here, but I still don't have a lot of trust in the UN. It might just be me, but I thought America was perfectly capable of defending its interests in the 20th Century before the UN or the League of Nations existed (see: both world wars). In both world wars, the American government was well-aware of the threat posed by the Central Powers/Axis in both wars, but only contributed weapons and supplies. When the Lusitania and the unrestricted warfare on the seas/Pearl Harbor incidents occured, America would become militarily involved, because they now had proof that there was a genuine threat to American interests.

Still, as I pointed out before, that necessary evidence has become much more excruciatingly technical, even now down to uranium and nuclear reactors rather than a fully-armed assault on American citizens/interests, simply due to the fact that the price of waiting for an armed attack would simply be too costly where modern weapons are involved.

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I still fully consider the possibility that in the years to come, Bush, and other members of the Coalition may very well be trialed for war crimes...

Somewhat true, but very little (besides the torture of Guantanamo prisoners and some prison incidents in Iraq) have occured that doesn't normally happen in war anyways--soldiers get stressed out and take out their anger on civilians, sure, but it's not as if the government has particularly ordered the soldiers to gun down the civilians themselves. This isn't like World War II where thousands of civilians died in aerial attacks on Dresden or Japanese cities were hit with atomic bombs. The collateral damage is a result simply of war. Insurgents and militants detonate bombs on crowded street corners or at police stations as well--don't think that even a majority of the civilian casualties in this war are as a result of American orders.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
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Offline Grug

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  • From the ashes...
Somewhat true, but very little (besides the torture of Guantanamo prisoners and some prison incidents in Iraq) have occured that doesn't normally happen in war anyways--soldiers get stressed out and take out their anger on civilians, sure, but it's not as if the government has particularly ordered the soldiers to gun down the civilians themselves. This isn't like World War II where thousands of civilians died in aerial attacks on Dresden or Japanese cities were hit with atomic bombs. The collateral damage is a result simply of war. Insurgents and militants detonate bombs on crowded street corners or at police stations as well--don't think that even a majority of the civilian casualties in this war are as a result of American orders.

Maybe. But to think America (or any coalition force for that matter) is an army of angels would be naive indeed. Also, the shoot first, ask questions later training of US soldiers leaves much wanting in the prevention of blue on blue, and civilian casualties.
The same stuff is going on as compared to the Vietnam war. It's just that they no longer show it on TV. =/
War is war yes. Which is why it sucks in the first place. :(

 

Offline Nuclear1

  • 211
Maybe. But to think America (or any coalition force for that matter) is an army of angels would be naive indeed. Also, the shoot first, ask questions later training of US soldiers leaves much wanting in the prevention of blue on blue, and civilian casualties.
The same stuff is going on as compared to the Vietnam war. It's just that they no longer show it on TV. =/
War is war yes. Which is why it sucks in the first place. :(

Of course, I perfectly understand that no one in the world is perfect. I'm a little more biased to the American military, since I'm four weeks away from formally enlisting in the USAF, but I know that every group has their flaws, and, like I said before, war is a high-stress situation. While that doesn't excuse what happens, it is a cause of what's happening.

But yes, war sucks. Big time.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Kosh

  • A year behind what's funny
  • 210
Quote
While that doesn't excuse what happens, it is a cause of what's happening.

A lot of these civilian casualties comes from "unexploded cluster munitions". While the Air Force doesn't really use these anymore, the Army still does. Even though it is unethical to use them close to civilian populations (and use White Phosphurus too for that matter), they do it anyway. After all, a few dead Iraqis here and there, what's the difference?
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline karajorma

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Of course the real irony of this situation is that the CIA apparently gave the Iranians plans for a Russian nuclear weapon about 5-6 years ago.
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Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
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Not to mention that it was the US that kinda, sorta kicked off the whole Iranian nuclear program, back when Iran was a US ally and was enjoying the freedom and democracy that comes with living under a monarchy.

 

Offline Kosh

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Not to mention that it was the US that kinda, sorta kicked off the whole Iranian nuclear program, back when Iran was a US ally and was enjoying the freedom and democracy that comes with living under a monarchy.

The Shah was overthrown 30 years ago. Iran wasn't exactly "free and democratic" under the Shah.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2006, 08:46:13 am by Kosh »
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
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Not to mention that it was the US that kinda, sorta kicked off the whole Iranian nuclear program, back when Iran was a US ally and was enjoying the freedom and democracy that comes with living under a monarchy.

The Shah was overthrown 30 years ago. Iran wasn't exactly "free and democratic" un the Shah.

Yeah, you'd almost think Rictor was being satirical or something.

 

Offline Kosh

  • A year behind what's funny
  • 210
Well according to that article, Iran has only been working on nuclear weapons for about 20 years.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
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Nuh-uh.

edit: wait a minute, I just re-read your post. Uhm, as far as anyone knows, including the IAEA, Iran is to this day not working on nuclear weapons. What I meant was that Iran's nuclear energy program dates back to before the revolution.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2006, 10:41:44 am by Rictor »

 

Offline Ace

  • Truth of Babel
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Not to mention that it was the US that kinda, sorta kicked off the whole Iranian nuclear program, back when Iran was a US ally and was enjoying the freedom and democracy that comes with living under a monarchy.

The Shah was overthrown 30 years ago. Iran wasn't exactly "free and democratic" under the Shah.

How dare you downplay Kermit Rosevelt's mighty efforts to defend freedom and democracy from the evils of nationalizing your oil fields from the British!
Ace
Self-plagiarism is style.
-Alfred Hitchcock

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Flipside

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Or possibly...



;)

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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Haha! Did you do that yourself?
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Flipside

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LOL Yeah, took about 20 mins in Photoshop, though I screwed up the fonts a bit ;)

  

Offline karajorma

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Good one Flipside :) I think I'll have to keep that one :)
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