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Author Topic: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.  (Read 12407 times)

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Offline Flipside

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #160 on: June 10, 2006, 07:35:13 pm
Basically, the US military is going to be removing the 'Cruel and Humiliating treatment' part of the Geneva Covention from the training regime of new recruits.

Not a clever move in the current climate, since it gives every appearance of effectively saying that Abu Ghraib was not the actions of a few, but based on policy, and now that policy is being solidified. (Not that we didn't pretty much know that already, but being so brazen in admitting it is a whole other matter).
 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #161 on: June 11, 2006, 03:37:57 am
Ok, so they're being up front, honest, and not misleading about the military force's actions. What's the problem?
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Offline AlphaOne

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #162 on: June 11, 2006, 04:52:39 am
The fact that they want to make it lgeal to torture and other stuff like that. That is the problem. This has much to do I think with the whole US wanting protection against warcrimes commited by US soldiers in several NATO countryes.

They made this deal wich basicly sais that that country will NOT turn over to the international tribunal for war crimes anyUS soldier that is acused or guilty of Warcrimes or crimes against humanyti.

And the freaking idiot romanian gouverment agreed to sign such a treaty. God i hate politicians. Especialy those that were in power duriong the last mandate.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #163 on: June 11, 2006, 05:41:01 am
Quote from: Sandwich on June 11, 2006, 03:37:57 am
Ok, so they're being up front, honest, and not misleading about the military force's actions. What's the problem?

Well, if, say, North Korea or Iran were up front, honest and not misleading about torturing people, you'd bloody well hear people complaining about that.
 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #164 on: June 11, 2006, 05:55:26 am
Haven't they just passed a resolution in Congress prohibiting this kinda crap?

I would not put it past the media to "neglect to mention" the fact that passage is being removed to make way for one based on US law.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #165 on: June 11, 2006, 06:30:09 am
Quote from: ngtm1r on June 11, 2006, 05:55:26 am
Haven't they just passed a resolution in Congress prohibiting this kinda crap?

I would not put it past the media to "neglect to mention" the fact that passage is being removed to make way for one based on US law.

Didn't Cheney redefine 'torture' as being only something that was (effectively) crippling, though?  Indications are from this administration that the likes of waterboarding, sensory deprivation, and forcing someone to stand up until they piss and **** themselves is perfectly acceptable.
 

Offline AlphaOne

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #166 on: June 11, 2006, 06:36:03 am
Who would like to see Cheney put through such and ordeal so that he mai get a feel of what he is asctualy sugesting? I vote yes. Oh and not just him but every other maniac that has ideas like these as to making torture legal.
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Offline Roanoke

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #167 on: June 11, 2006, 09:04:10 am
I blame Tony Blair for all this. Bush is obviously an idiot but he couldn't have pulled it off without TB tagging along, pretty much destroying the repuation of the UK in the middle east along the way.

Quick note on the WW2 bombing thing, the irony is if the Luftwaffe had been allowed to continue bombing UK airfields, rather than the civilian population at Hitler's direct orfer, then the RAF would have collapsed within a matter of weeks.
 

Offline AlphaOne

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #168 on: June 11, 2006, 09:50:37 am
Yep In fact if Hitler had listened to his generals in the first place and used theyr advice during the war then he would of won the blasted thing. Woo now thats a scary thought. But still just goes to show how idiotic some leaders can be.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #169 on: June 11, 2006, 10:57:59 am
Quote from: Roanoke on June 11, 2006, 09:04:10 am
I blame Tony Blair for all this. Bush is obviously an idiot but he couldn't have pulled it off without TB tagging along, pretty much destroying the repuation of the UK in the middle east along the way.

Quick note on the WW2 bombing thing, the irony is if the Luftwaffe had been allowed to continue bombing UK airfields, rather than the civilian population at Hitler's direct orfer, then the RAF would have collapsed within a matter of weeks.

I thought it was Goering that switched targets?  IIRC they spent a while hitting radar positions, which was badly damaging the air defense, but switched just short of a possible victory because they hadn't realised how effective it was.
 

Offline Shade

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #170 on: June 11, 2006, 11:21:59 am
I think they were ordered to switch because Hitler wanted revenge after a bombing raid on Berlin. The world is truely lucky he was such a military imbecile...
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Offline AlphaOne

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #171 on: June 11, 2006, 03:19:21 pm
Well his milatary strategist skill were good to a point and were influenced by a lot of dumb moves on the part of the allies and one hell of a dose of luck.

He should of listened to his generals. If the generals had theyr way then europe would of had one official language....german. Man I managed to scare miself really bad here.


Oh and ever heard about he story where Von Manstein I believe it was that actualy told Hitler he was mad?? Alot of generals and filedmarshals got shot for a lot less then that.

I cant but help apreciate the milatary geniouses that Hitler surounded himself with but on the other hand i can but feel sickened about the fact they were fighting on the wrong side. The allies could of really used people like them.
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Offline Shade

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #172 on: June 11, 2006, 03:28:04 pm
Well, even if some of them did not like what was going on, they were still Germans. In a war, you don't just abandon your country because you don't like what the leader is doing (where would the United States be now if that were the case?). Of course, a fair number were also dedicated Nazis who supported the regime's policies.

Anyway, it is a bit scary to think about when you realize that all it would have taken for Germany to completely break the allies in Europe would have been for Dönitz to have been one rank higher at the start of the war.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2006, 03:31:20 pm by Shade »
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Offline Flipside

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #173 on: June 11, 2006, 04:47:11 pm
So Iran saying they want to see Israel wiped off the face of the planet is merely being open and honest and we shouldn't worry about it?

The fact is that being 'honest' is no excuse for removing the safeguards that they chose to put in place to maintain, and I can't stress the word strongly enough, humanitarian treatment of prisoners.

Frankly, to me, it's a symbol that America is starting the slide into Barbarism.
 

Offline AlphaOne

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #174 on: June 11, 2006, 05:24:21 pm
Roger that shade something like this just makes the hair on back of your head stand up! but tha is enough ror tonight people. Here its 1.23 in the morning and i really must get some sleep!
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Offline Shade

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #175 on: June 11, 2006, 05:27:13 pm
0.23 here, and sleep would be welcome... but it's just still too damn hot for me to actually be able to fall asleep, so no point trying yet :p Need the temp to at least drop below 25c before I even bother to lie down.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #176 on: June 11, 2006, 07:24:47 pm
Quote from: aldo_14 on June 11, 2006, 06:30:09 am
Didn't Cheney redefine 'torture' as being only something that was (effectively) crippling, though?  Indications are from this administration that the likes of waterboarding, sensory deprivation, and forcing someone to stand up until they piss and **** themselves is perfectly acceptable.

Considering the resolution was drafted by someone who actually suffered these things in Vietnam, I don't think they would have left loopholes like that...
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: U.S. Military initiates early steps away from the Geneva convention.
Reply #177 on: June 12, 2006, 03:03:20 am
Quote from: ngtm1r on June 11, 2006, 07:24:47 pm
Quote from: aldo_14 on June 11, 2006, 06:30:09 am
Didn't Cheney redefine 'torture' as being only something that was (effectively) crippling, though?  Indications are from this administration that the likes of waterboarding, sensory deprivation, and forcing someone to stand up until they piss and **** themselves is perfectly acceptable.

Considering the resolution was drafted by someone who actually suffered these things in Vietnam, I don't think they would have left loopholes like that...

Well, where's the text for these things and we can find out?

(of course, all it really would entail if it is solely a domestic ban, is moving these things to 'black' sites, or keeping up the practice of rendition to torturing countries)
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