Author Topic: Enviromental issues  (Read 3614 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: Enviromental issues
Minimum wage jobs having people run in wheels like hamsters hooked up to generators.

Puts out lots of carbon dioxide actually.

Those people have to eat chemical fuel in the form of food and CO2 is the waste product when they burn it up.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline jr2

  • The Mail Man
  • 212
  • It's prounounced jayartoo 0x6A7232
    • Steam
Re: Enviromental issues
You're joking, right?  I know we produce CO2, but that has negligible impact.

 

Offline Janos

  • A *really* weird sheep
  • 28
Re: Enviromental issues
Pffft!  If we really wanted to quit fossil fuels, we could do it now.  The technology is available.  No, not solar, alternative fuels, hydro or wind.... The technology works quite well, but Not In My Back Yard.  (Actually, since I don't freak out over stupid occurrences like Cherynobl, I wouldn't mind.)

Come back to me when you have unlimited uranium deposits and cars running on nuclear power tia
lol wtf

 
Re: Enviromental issues
The biggest problem with nuclear power isn't the finite quantity of obtainable uranium on the planet, it's that we are still building new reactors based on designs and technology that are 50 years old, and every new or clever idea anyone has come up with or even proved out is either completely ignored or outright repressed.  Argonne National Laboratory came up with a completely different reactor design and fuel life-cycle over a decade ago before all their funding dropped out from under them.  Even then, they'd already built the reactor and successfully proved they could make it work, and work well.

The basic idea was to combine a liquid-metal cooled reactor (ideally lead-bismuth eutectic) with a pyrometallurgical fuel reprocessing scheme.  The liquid metal cooled reactor is inherently safer than the light-water reactors we still insist on using because it is capable of cooling itself passively without any pumps at all.  (Ask Russia.  They've been using them on their subs since the beginning of the Cold War.)  Meltdowns wouldn't be impossible, but with proper reactor design they'd practically have to be deliberately instigated.  This type of reactor is also capable of breeding and burning with ease the transuranics currently considered unusable (and highly dangerous) waste in the current reactor/fuel-cycle scheme.

As for the pyro-reprocessing:
Quote
# It separates out all actinides, and therefore produces fuel that is heavily spiked with heavy actinides, such as Plutonium (240+), and Curium 242. This does not prevent the fuel from being suitable for reactors, but it makes it hard to manipulate, steal, or make nuclear weapons from. This is generally considered a fairly desirable property. In contrast, the PUREX process can easily produce separated Uranium and Plutonium, and also tends to leave the remaining actinides (like Curium) behind, producing more dangerous nuclear waste.
# It is somewhat more efficient and considerably more compact than aqueous processing methods, allowing the possibility of on-site reprocessing of reactor wastes. This circumvents various transportation and security issues, allowing the reactor to simply store a small volume (perhaps a few percent of the original volume of the spent fuel) of fission product laced salt on site until decommissioning, when everything could be dealt with at once.
# Since pyrometallurgy recovers all the actinides, the remaining waste is not nearly as long lived as it would otherwise be. Most of the long term (past a couple hundred years) radioactivity produced by nuclear waste is produced by the actinides. These actinides can (mostly) be consumed by reactors as fuel, so extracting them from the waste and reinserting them into the reactor reduces the long term threat from the waste, and reduces the fuel needs of the reactor.
It won't by viable forever any more than burning fossil fuels is, but it would buy us more time to develop and implement truly renewable power sources.  I don't think liquid metal reactors and pyro-reprocessing should be implemented to the exclusion of renewable technologies available now, but neither do I understand why everyone insists on ignoring it and all it can offer.
"…ignorance, while it checks the enthusiasm of the sensible, in no way restrains the fools…"
-Stanislaw Lem

 

Offline jr2

  • The Mail Man
  • 212
  • It's prounounced jayartoo 0x6A7232
    • Steam
Re: Enviromental issues
Pffft!  If we really wanted to quit fossil fuels, we could do it now.  The technology is available.  No, not solar, alternative fuels, hydro or wind.... The technology works quite well, but Not In My Back Yard.  (Actually, since I don't freak out over stupid occurrences like Cherynobl, I wouldn't mind.)

Come back to me when you have unlimited uranium deposits and cars running on nuclear power tia

I don't have to.  Nuclear power is best suited for central distribution.  ie, nuclear power plants power the electric grid, at a much cheaper price than oil or almost anything else.   Now, you plugin electric cars begin to make sense.  Instead of burning fossil fuels and then losing energy as it is transmitted to the electric car, you use nuclear.  Sure, you lose some power in transmition - at the cost of a few wasted atoms, who gives a rip.  Start to make sense?

 
Re: Enviromental issues
Yes, junior, but a highly centralized system (like the one we have) is vulnerable and requires a much more robust transmission system to be able to move huge amounts of power from a few locations to where it is actually needed.  Our transmission lines are taxed practically to the limit already and are in dire need of upgrade.  It's so bad that much of the power used in Texas during the summer is being routed from Louisiana because the lines from local power plants are already at capacity.  It would make much more sense to have a lot of small generation sites throughout the network to help spread out the load and minimize transmission losses.

I'm an advocate of nuclear power (because I think any fossil fuels we don't burn is a very good thing), but I do not think a network comprised solely of colossal power plants (of any kind) is a good idea.  What happens when one of those colossal power plants trips?  (The northeast blackouts of 2003, anyone?)
"…ignorance, while it checks the enthusiasm of the sensible, in no way restrains the fools…"
-Stanislaw Lem

 

Offline jr2

  • The Mail Man
  • 212
  • It's prounounced jayartoo 0x6A7232
    • Steam
Re: Enviromental issues
The same thing as when a power generator of equivalent size powered by fossil fuels trips.  Except, well, it'd be a bit more rare for a nuclear generator to go down.  But whatever.  You can't go wrong by replacing our current generators with nuclear ones.  Adding more will only help.  IIRC, it's not so much that the distribution network is transmitting too much power as it is that there is not enough power to go around through it.  This causes problems, and because the grid is old, the problem is compounded.

 
Re: Enviromental issues
The same thing as when a power generator of equivalent size powered by fossil fuels trips.  Except, well, it'd be a bit more rare for a nuclear generator to go down.

 :wtf:
Why would it matter what the source of power was as far as plant trips are concerned?  It is a transmission supply/demand problem, not a generation problem.  IIRC, there was at least one nuclear plant (probably more considering the region) the did trip during said 2003 outage.  And the problem in that outage at least wasn't that there wasn't enough generation capacity available.  Yes, the generators were being taxed, but the cause of the problem was a cascade transmission failure where individual lines were cut off from the grid when they became overloaded and the rest of the grid failed to react fast enough to prevent subsequent failures.
"…ignorance, while it checks the enthusiasm of the sensible, in no way restrains the fools…"
-Stanislaw Lem

 

Offline Aardwolf

  • 211
  • Posts: 16,384
Re: Enviromental issues
Hm... what do you people think about the plan Bush had about burying the nuclear waste under a mountain in the Rockies? What ever happened with that, anyway?

 

Offline jr2

  • The Mail Man
  • 212
  • It's prounounced jayartoo 0x6A7232
    • Steam
Re: Enviromental issues
Yucca mountain, IIRC.  IDK about the rest.

  

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: Enviromental issues
Built correctly it should be safe. From what I've heard the waste products of the Oklo nuclear reactor haven't moved significantly and they've had 2 billion years to leak out.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]