[starbug]

i have recently noticed a problem with the htl Aten while playing FSport, when fireing weapons at certain points on the sides of the ship and below, the weapons just pass through, is this known or been already fixed and i have just missed it. i have the up to date models vp with 3.6.9 and i hope this is the right forum for this

[Jeff Vader]

I think I remember reading some thread about this a while back. The issue is generally known, but at least so far no one with the necessary skills has fixed it. Maybe someone is secretly working on this. Who knows. But right now we just have to live with it.

[nubbles526]

Huh? An HTL aten? Since when was that released?

Check Mantis,  remember seeing one.

[Jeff Vader]

Well, the discussion was about the high poly Aten. And, according to my current level of knowledge, high poly ≠ HTL. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But the high poly Aten is included in the FSPort files, again  if I'm not wrong. And it's included with those go-through spots that can be irritating when you're supposed to bring the damn thing down.

[Snail]

HTL basically means Hardware Texture & Lighting. AFAIK, HTL = High Poly.

[Jeff Vader]

Precisely. I didn't know that before but I do now.

You live and you learn. Or at least live.

[Snail]

You live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed. - Aldo_14

[DaBrain]

HTL basically means Hardware Texture & Lighting. AFAIK, HTL = High Poly.

No... acutally "High-Poly" means it's not made for in-game use.
Even a ship with 100.000 polygons in a game, would be a low-poly mesh.

And HTL is dead". No current game is using HTL anymore. It's outdated.
Even though the FSO engine does support it, we should finally move on and find a new term for this.

[CP5670]

I've been saying this for a while. The HTL terminology sounds silly and makes no sense when referring to models. Just call them high poly models. They're high poly compared to the original models, which is the whole point.

Anyway, that weapon pass-through problem is known and affects a number of the existing models. The Satis is another example. I don't know if anything is being done about it though. To be honest, the whole modeling project has gone into something of a freefall. There haven't been any additions to the models for quite some time, and several of our main modelers seem to have disappeared from the community over the last year or so.

[Vasudan Admiral]

But I like the HTL naming convention.
Wrong as it may be - if I'm gonna spend weeks, if not months, working on a model, I get to pick between "HP" and "HTL". HTL looks a bit cooler in the filenames, so I'm gonna keep it.

As for the models in question, has anyone tried opening and resaving them using PCS2? That should automatically rebuild the collision mesh, and in the process hopefully catch and kill the bugs.

[Snail]

Well technically it should be HT&L.

[wolf]

And HTL is dead". No current game is using HTL anymore. It's outdated.

All current games do transformation and lighting in hardware, so it's not dead.

[DaBrain]

But it's not that HTL the Geforce 1 invented anymore.

Modern games use vertex shaders to do this. Modern gfx cards don't even have HTL units anymore, but emulate HTL via vertex shader. (afair)

So once FS2 uses shaders, "HTL" is even technically the wron term.


I agree that "HTL model" sounds somewhat nice, but it gives new people the wrong impression.

[castor]

I never got the logic why HP models were called as HTL in the first place..
Was it because HP is too heavy to run without HTL

[Vasudan Admiral]

No - it's because when Bobboau first implemented hardware transform and lighting in the FSO engine, it effectively allowed modelers to build meshes that were 10-20 (or more) times more complex than had been previously possible. It basically removed the huge limitations that were on us up until that point, so it was like it was a whole new engine to play with. I don't know about others, but that's one of the main reasons I like calling the new models 'HTL' versions.

Moreover, 'high poly' doesn't really cover texture improvements, since I've redrawn most of the textures on the stuff I've done, and Lightspeed and DaBrain have gone over and spruced up the old set of textures from the originals.

[wolf]

But it's not that HTL the Geforce 1 invented anymore.

Sure, the implementation is different, but for the casual observer the principle is the same: the CPU doesn't have to do T&L calculations.

Modern gfx cards don't even have HTL units anymore, but emulate HTL via vertex shader. (afair)

Fixed function pipeline needs to be emulated. In no way Hardware Transform & Lighting can be emulated.

[starbug]

okay, so is anyone working on the high-poly aten to fix that wee problem?

[Vasudan Admiral]

I can't ATM, but try just opening it up in PCS2 and resaving it. That should get PCS2 to rebuild the collision mesh which should solve the issues.