[Grizzly]

They still think Derelict is undisputed king of the hill!

But they are right!

[General Battuta]

They still think Derelict is undisputed king of the hill!

But they are right!

No they aren't, we just discussed this for the past 4 pages. There is no indisputed king of the hill and that's a good thing. There is no way you could make a case that everyone gets anywhere near agreeing on one best campaign.

[Grizzly]

They still think Derelict is undisputed king of the hill!

But they are right!

No they aren't, we just discussed this for the past 4 pages. There is no indisputed king of the hill and that's a good thing. There is no way you could make a case that everyone gets anywhere near agreeing on one best campaign.

But, I think they are right... It was just me vouching my personal opinion, stating it as a fact as a non-serious way of doing so.

[General Battuta]

You don't even play FreeSpace, so isn't that kind of...rude to people like ReeNoIP and Spoon and Axem who've done great work in recent years?

[Grizzly]

You don't even play FreeSpace, so isn't that kind of...rude to people like ReeNoIP and Spoon and Axem who've done great work in recent years?

But I do play Freespace. Me liking Derelict as the most awesome campaign (I have ever played) has nothing to do with the lack of awesomeness of Axem, or Spoon, or ReeNoIP, but more about Russel.

[Mobius]

I've said over and over again that people don't want this, that there should always be a variety of narrative approaches, not a single one. In fact I've told you several times over the years that the great strength of the community is diversity and heterogeneity, rather than everyone doing something one way. (This is the same position Volition's always taken, incidentally). I don't know what you're talking about.

I was actually the one who spent a lot of time trying to teach you that. I remember when you were like "BP is better, period" and even denied the existance of campaign genres, claiming that BP was simply ahead of (read: better than)  the original FreeSpace style, and that there is no such thing as a character-driven campaign. The community, however, realized that there are various kinds of campaigns, and that player characters who talk and interact with other characters aren't always appreciated. Your current approach is much more modest than it used to be, and that's quite encouraging IMO.

And again, here, I don't think I've seen anyone claim this. I don't know what you're trying to say or who you're trying to argue against.

I'm not refering to any claims, just to obvious facts people seem to have forgotten. For example, during your battles against the reputation of good ol' campaigns like Derelict, you never happen to underline that Derelict has been created when the gross majority of the features we now have were not available. Derelict's two campaign creators, unlike the BP Team, couldn't ask coders to add new features. They couldn't create their own HTL, uber models, and couldn't rely on stuff like cutscenes and new SEXPs. They had a lot of limits and I bet they didn't even imagine what would have happened to FreeSpace's fanbase thanks to the SCP and FSU. Ignoring these facts during a discussion on the subject, IMO, equals to say "we're better than they were, period". It may be just my impression, afterall, but I'm pretty sure I've noticed a "we're so much better than the old campaign designers" feeling around here, even though it isn't true, or at least it can't be proved.

[General Battuta]

I was actually the one who spent a lot of time trying to teach you that. I remember when you were like "BP is better, period" and even denied the existance of campaign genres, claiming that BP was simply ahead of (read: better than)  the original FreeSpace style, and that there is no such thing as a character-driven campaign. The community, however, realized that there are various kinds of campaigns, and that player characters who talk and interact with other characters aren't always appreciated. Your current approach is much more modest than it used to be, and that's quite encouraging IMO.

I have never said this. If you believe I have said this you are misremembering a misinterpretation, something that exists only in your own head.

My opinion has always been that there should be a variety of narrative approaches, just as Volition advocated. You can spend as much time as you like with my post history and you will not be able to find any evidence to the contrary.

You've always been a little emotional but this is...really weird.

I'm not refering to any claims, just to obvious facts people seem to have forgotten. For example, during your battles against the reputation of good ol' campaigns like Derelict, you never happen to underline that Derelict has been created when the gross majority of the features we now have were not available.

If I were battling against the reputation of Derelict, why would I say I believe it is a superb campaign, and that it cannot be said to be any worse than other good campaigns? I said that right here in this thread - that it was one of the greatest campaigns of all time and that no campaign could be called greater.

If I did not wish to underline that Derelict had been created before many new features were available, why would I post quotes indicating that Derelict had been created when many new features were unavailable?

How have you missed these points? Are you just looking to create a fight? Haven't you been banned and ostracized enough - why would you want to create more conflict?

You don't even play FreeSpace, so isn't that kind of...rude to people like ReeNoIP and Spoon and Axem who've done great work in recent years?

But I do play Freespace. Me liking Derelict as the most awesome campaign (I have ever played) has nothing to do with the lack of awesomeness of Axem, or Spoon, or ReeNoIP, but more about Russel.

Blaise Russell didn't FRED Derelict.

I'm not refering to any claims, just to obvious facts people seem to have forgotten. For example, during your battles against the reputation of good ol' campaigns like Derelict

I think [Derelict] is wonderful

I'm arguing that there is no longer a best campaign, that there are instead a vast number of high-quality campaigns which can satisfy just about every desire

You never happen to underline that Derelict has been created when the gross majority of the features we now have were not available.

really it's because back in the day Derelict was basically the only campaign that came near Volition's quality, but today we have so much work that has either matched or wildly exceeded Volition's design that people say 'wow, look at all this amazing stuff, it is all great' rather than 'THAT ONE IS BEST'.

    Yes but you're also pretty much comparing one of the first big campaigns to be made (and then updated to SCP) to Blue Planet which, really, I would suggest is one of the best FS2 campaigns made. I also think Derelict was the first big attempt at the HLP forums to voice act an entire campaign. There's literally ten years of innovation and improvement between the two of them.

Pretty rough getting caught in an outright lie, isn't it?

More fact checking on your claims coming right up.

[Zacam]

K. Girls, you're both pretty.

Regardless of when a campaign was made, it is still awesome simply for the fact of it's existence. Doesn't matter if it never got finished, or people found it un-polished or incomplete. Just the act of having been created, regardless of the standards or the limitations, makes it something wonderful.

There is no first place. There is no second place. There is no last place. There is simply Created, or Yet-to-be-Created.

This thread is done.

[karajorma]

Blaise Russell didn't FRED Derelict.

No, but he did update it for SCP.

Just to make that point clear.