Author Topic: Steve Jobs dies  (Read 12341 times)

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Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Killing them? Where?

http://www.intomobile.com/2011/05/02/apple-has-50-profit-share-smartphone-makers-cant-hear-haters-behind-huge-wall-cash/

in terms of how many people use the phone, market share, not profit share. yes Apple is making money, I never denied that. Apple is making more money than anyone else, but that's not because a lot of people use their phone it's because Apple charges more per unit. ios usage share on phones is somewhere around 20%, android is somewhere around 50%. android is free so there is no profit being made directly from it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Mobile_devices

Android is "free" except for the royalties some companies have to pay for microsoft... quite the irony. Apple charges more per unit because they only sell the top tier phone, not the 100, 200 bucks phones, which are the bulk of android phones (and the kind of which I'm about to buy anyway).

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ok, so you haven't actually used it either

Quit trolling me. I've seen it used. It's amazing. And I couldn't have had used it, since I live in Portugal.

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here is an article that supports you, note it is in terms of profit share not market share, but I think it shows the ball park roughly
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10470102-37.html
you call 20% share 'killing them', granted it is on the rise, but they are not dominating this market, Nintendo is.

2009 is history. This more recent article, for comparison, has a more recent data, although they blur it with android pollution:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20054217-17.html

I do wonder to the comparison between android and iOS.

It's murder. Nintendo is surely less than 50% now.

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they have something like 10% market share, that is not dominating, and that is only in the US market, they aren't even on the radar world wide.

You're right. I was reminding of the 1000$+ pc market.

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Apple is dominating the PMP market.
Project Management Professional?

Portable Media Players.

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They invented a good multitouch tech
no they didn't, it has been around since the 70s, you could argue they popularized it.

Yes they did. I didn't say they invented multitouch. I said they invented a "Good multitouch tech". Arguably the best in town since its beggining.

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yeah, people like me don't like being treated like children or paying more to get less.

I don't like being conned into buying a i7 laptop only to see it burning hot in my lap and see its performance decreased. But hey I am an "adult" and should have seen it coming right? Apple is surely treating their custumers like babies by not giving them these shady options.

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
-snip-

I'm not doing the argue-every-sentence thing with you today, luis.  That said, I will correct a couple of your misconceptions below because they warrant special attention.  As to the rest:

Your entire argument boils down to:  Apple is revolutionary because their products do everything I think they need to and they sell a lot of them.  To which I have a two-word response:

Genius marketers.

Apple's hardware and software is not revolutionary in its specifications, its breadth of functionality, its price point, or its innovations.  But they're really good at selling it.


I'd say actually the reverse (but agreeing with you). They start with the marketing: what kind of product do we want to sell and how will we sell it. They envision the marketing first, and only then they try to build the product. They skim it to its very core.

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And no, Apple is most decidedly NOT dominating the laptop market.  If you'd care to look at total sales sometime, you'll find that PC manufacturers combined outsell Apple's portable computers by a pretty wide margin.

you're right, I made a mistake.

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Apple has a very small fraction of the personal computing market - which, to harp back on one of your other misconceptions, is largely the reason for fewer malware infections:  MacOS is just as vulnerable to attack as Windows, there's just a lot less malware that actively targets it.

This is not a misconception on my part (where in my words do I say anything against what you are saying here?).

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It also runs quite a bit less in terms of overall software (fewer points of infiltration to work with).  But I assure you, if you put Windows on an Apple machine without any sort of protection and don't utilize networking practices, it'll get infected just as quickly as any PC.  Macs don't get viruses as often as Window PCs because the MacOS user base is an irrelevant portion of the computing market.  Apple's market share is the only reason they can make that claim, which is dubious at best.

Nor is it dubious (since it's been confirmed for decades now), nor does it matter the reason. What matters is that it is true. And of course, if you install windows, you won't be protected from its own problems.

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As for MP3 players, find a source that says Creative was underselling their competitors to the iPod.  It was cheaper because the iPod was priced higher, not because of any underselling.  While you're at it, do some research on early tablets.  Colleagues of mine were using Toshiba's tablet PCs in 2006 with pen-touch interfaces for note-taking quite successfully.

They were windows based tablets, with pens. Bleargh. With 2, perhaps 3 hours of battery.

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Oh, and since it was also a computer it could play video, surf the web, check email, and at the same time allow the student to write papers and look at Powerpoint presentations.  And it was priced similarly to other laptops at the time.

Did I ever say otherwise? You are arguing strawmans, mp.

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Again - all I see from your posts is justification about how Apple was brilliant because of things that essentially boil down to marketing.  Nowhere have you actually demonstrated that any of Apple's products were/are unique and revolutionary.  They weren't.  They took products and ideas already available, bundled them up aiming at the lowest common denominator of end-user, and applied their marketing machine.

With that criteria in mind, no single product is revolutionary. Take what you will. I think that the iPhone is revolutionary because it spawned a new era of smartphones. It revolutionized the market with its unique vision of what a phone should be. The iPad? Same. Just look at this picture:
http://iphonefizz.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/376167502.jpg

Now look at ultraportables after the macbook air and decide for yourself where did they get counseling.

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Now they're using the ridiculous sums of cash they've collected from doing so to stifle the competition (Samsung, anyone?  Though the interesting thing there is that I suspect Apple needs Samsung more than Samsung needs Apple).  Nothing you've said paints them in any other light.

Samsung's best "client" is apple, ironically. Apple didn't like the abuse they got from the biggest KIRF company in the world and sued them. It's business.

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EDIT:  Also, I'm not saying that Apple's marketing genius isn't a significant accomplishment (it is, and I'm thankful for the proliferation of tech that has resulted from it), I'm just saying that it is marketing and not innovation that drives Apple's success.

Alright, I'll disagree. I think Apple is innovative not only in the vision of what their products will be, but also in their design (does any other company cares 10% of what apple does to make their computers even "likable"? Apple products are beautiful). And I agree with you that they know how to sell very well, and the important part of that is that they know how to "teach" their custumers on how to use their products, and what to expect from what kind of devices. I don't know what to expect from a samsung galaxy tab. They never showed me, and in the nearest shop, there's one of those turned off with some spec lists at the bottom.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 04:38:14 pm by Luis Dias »

 

Offline Polpolion

  • The sizzle, it thinks!
  • 211
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Android is "free" except for the royalties some companies have to pay for microsoft... quite the irony. Apple charges more per unit because they only sell the top tier phone, not the 100, 200 bucks phones, which are the bulk of android phones (and the kind of which I'm about to buy anyway).

IPhones are not overpriced because they're top tier phones? this is awful argument.

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Quit trolling me. I've seen it used. It's amazing. And I couldn't have had used it, since I live in Portugal.

another laughable argument. You've seen it being used. Well I borrowed my sisters for 30 seconds the other day and it was ****. check MATE!!

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2009 is history. This more recent article, for comparison, has a more recent data, although they blur it with android pollution:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20054217-17.html

I do wonder to the comparison between android and iOS.

It's murder. Nintendo is surely less than 50% now.

oh lord. you're actually arguing that the itouch is a gaming device on a GAMING FORUM. Go away.

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Yes they did. I didn't say they invented multitouch. I said they invented a "Good multitouch tech". Arguably the best in town since its beggining.

And I invented a C++ program that displays 'Hello world' !

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I don't like being conned into buying a i7 laptop only to see it burning hot in my lap and see its performance decreased. But hey I am an "adult" and should have seen it coming right? Apple is surely treating their custumers like babies by not giving them these shady options.

buahahaha it's almost like you've forgotten the awful heat management problems apple laptops have, oh wait it seems like that BECAUSE YOU HAVE. There's why companies everywhere aren't making one piece laptop cases: it's a bad idea.

now I have a calc exam so I will laugh at your other post later

  

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
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This thread has outlived its usefulness. Steve Jobs is dead. His company isn't, and is doing quite well (although how it will fare without Jobs at the helm will be interesting to see).

You people bashing Apple, or bashing people who bash Apple, are really remarkably off-topic.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns