[TwentyPercentCooler]

As far as I'm concerned, people who won't get off their couches to vote forfeit their right to complain that the government doesn't represent them.

[karajorma]

I 100% agree. Even if you don't like any of the candidates, make it clear that there is someone you would vote for.

[BrotherBryon]

Depending on the voting machines it may not be possible to spoil the vote. I don't remember being able to do anything except select a listed candidate and there was no place or even means of writing some thing in. I could be wrong though.

[karajorma]

Maybe you could go in and time out the vote.

You could ask for a mail-in ballot too.

[Mongoose]

As far as I'm concerned, people who won't get off their couches to vote forfeit their right to complain that the government doesn't represent them.

George Carlin begged to differ.

[NGTM-1R]

If you pay taxes to the government, your voting or not voting is somewhat irrelevant; you still have the right of participation in its upkeep and maintenance.

[karajorma]

As far as I'm concerned, people who won't get off their couches to vote forfeit their right to complain that the government doesn't represent them.

George Carlin begged to differ.

He's wrong. (but funny about it).

If his argument is that people get the government they choose to have, and that the issue is that many people who vote choose arseholes, what kind of choice are you making by deliberately leaving it up to people who vote choose arseholes? He did make a decision. He decided that he wanted an arsehole for president. He just didn't pick which arsehole.

That said, most of his point wasn't that different from mine. Remember I'm telling people to go in and not vote for the people on the ballot.

[S-99]

Who the hell doesn't have ID?

In the United States?

1)  Elderly persons who no longer drive.
2)  Urban residents who don't need a car to get where they're going.
3)  University students who couldn't park on/near campus, even if they did have a car.

Drivers licenses are a form of id. You can get an id card without needing to get a license to drive. Not everyone owns a car, needs to drive, or can drive; and many even have driving restrictions. Most people without cars have id anyway (doesn't mean they're licensed to drive, a lot of people who don't have cars do have licenses, and a lot of people who don't have licenses don't have cars (although, many with cars don't have licenses, but still have id; not saying this is good, there's a lot of stupid people running about on the roads)). It costs $15 dollars where i'm at. Not exactly pricey.

[Alex Heartnet]

@karajorma, do explain to me why voting is so great and how it can bring about change?  I wanna hear your justification for going to vote.

My justification for NOT voting is that US politics has become a revolving door for crooks and con artists, and we always get presented with a choice between bad and worse.  I shouldn't be forced to vote for the lesser evil - the lesser evil is still evil.  If no one votes then it becomes obvious that the politicians have no support.

[Thaeris]

The problem is that is a general statement, just like one party is good and the other is bad. It blankets the issue with ignorance, and in a state of hopelessness, you choose to do nothing. That is the exact problem in the US now, I think. Many policies encourage ignorance, because if you knew just a little, even, you would be outraged. And not just you, a lot of people. And you would care about the problems, about justice, and what have you. Those things could then be combatted, and you might just not see all the crooks and liars in office.

Thus, education is the key - find out about who you might vote for, and not just the two blokes you hear about on the news. And when you learn something, make that known. The problem for corrupt politicians is that we can communicate more easily than ever before. You just need the drive to get other people to learn and listen.

[Alex Heartnet]

The problem is that is a general statement, just like one party is good and the other is bad. It blankets the issue with ignorance, and in a state of hopelessness, you choose to do nothing. That is the exact problem in the US now, I think. Many policies encourage ignorance, because if you knew just a little, even, you would be outraged. And not just you, a lot of people. And you would care about the problems, about justice, and what have you. Those things could then be combatted, and you might just not see all the crooks and liars in office.

Thus, education is the key - find out about who you might vote for, and not just the two blokes you hear about on the news. And when you learn something, make that known. The problem for corrupt politicians is that we can communicate more easily than ever before. You just need the drive to get other people to learn and listen.

I've tried that.  Unfortunately, a lot of people just have this huge mental block against any information of the sort.  They are happy to listen to the talking heads on the TV and take it as gospel while never questioning a thing.

So rather then attacking it all at once, I find it much easier to chip away at established memes and slowly break down people's trust of authority - especially as I am being made to live with these people for the foreseeable future.

Hence, me attacking the idea that voting will magically change everything.

[Thaeris]

The point it this - you can start doing something, or you can continue doing nothing. It would certainly be better to do something.

[karajorma]

@karajorma, do explain to me why voting is so great and how it can bring about change?  I wanna hear your justification for going to vote.

The good guys never run cause they know they have no support. But if 50% of the electorate are going to the polls but not actually voting for anyone. Well that's a sign that maybe the do.

Basically I'm trying to start a peaceful revolution. With minimal effort, you can turn up on one day and protest that neither side are worth supporting.

[Thaeris]

I think this year showed very clearly that the good guys do run, but the media gives them no time or blocks them out. If the media isn't doing that, the blatantly obvious fraud in the Republican conventions, for example, did. Fortunately, there ought to be enough evidence to put a lot of people in prison, if the legal system can crawl out of the corruption it's in now.

...It was a sad day when Dr. Paul was forced out. I need to research the Libertarian candidate more (Johnson), but you still have options if you don't like either main party. You should also investigate the individuals running for your state elections. They're important, too.

[Aardwolf]

The Pirate Party didn't bother to run this election, right?

[NGTM-1R]

The good guys never run cause they know they have no support.

Huntsman.

[Aardwolf]

Wait, this is my thread. What am I doing letting it get derailed talking about "the lesser of two evils"?  Oh right, because Thaeris made a rant about the **** the RNC has gotten away with, and concluded it with an "in order to stay in the game the DNC will have to take corporate $ too". Bleh.






Back on topic, consensus on this?

Effects:

Voter identity fraud:
Because there was (virtually) no voter identity fraud, (virtually) no voter identity fraud will be prevented by the enactment of these laws. I don't think anyone has contested this.

People getting photo IDs:
Some people will get the new required photo IDs, and some people won't. Regardless whether you want to condemn it as sloth, it puts one additional thing in the way of people who were otherwise able to vote, and who were statistically more likely to vote Democratic.



Motivation:
Apparently there isn't a consensus on this ...despite it being established by the actual legislators talking about it. They were aware that voter identity fraud wasn't a thing, and they were aware it would tip the vote in their favor. It was a power grab.



"In Principal":
Yes it makes sense that the person voting should be who they say they are. I think we have consensus on this.