Author Topic: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified  (Read 2414 times)

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Offline MP-Ryan

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Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10123547/Scientists-uncover-clues-to-cancers-spread.html

Booya.

http://www.nature.com/ncb/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ncb2772.html

Basically, it seems this team has identified the mechanism by which cancerous cells move around the body, which makes targeted drug interference a hell of a lot easier.
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
:yes:

 

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
 :yes:
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
Nice. That could seriously hamper the even worst kinds of cancer. While it's not the miraculous "cancer cure", we're one step closer to it. :yes:

 

Offline IronBeer

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
 :D **** cancer!
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
SCIENCE!
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
i won't lie, i initially thought this was a blue planet topic from the title
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
ahahah!

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
Quote
Scientists increase understanding of Tumors.

/Plague, Inc.


:yes:

 

Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
I, too, thought this was a Blue Planet thread upon reading the title.

I seriously hope this isn't a case of some research assistant overstating and/or some journalists misunderstanding or misrepresenting the facts. Slowing the metastasis of aggressive tumours in even a small fraction of cases would be a pretty big step forward.

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
i won't lie, i initially thought this was a blue planet topic from the title
Maybe this means there is hope for humanity in BP? :p

 On a more serious note, this is fantastic.

 

Offline Kolgena

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
Uh, the paper identifies the mechanism that (healthy, nonpathological) neural crest cells migrate, which is via an interesting and newly discovered mechanism. It's a realistic conclusion to say that cancers arising from NCs may work this way. It is a much larger stretch to say that all cancers work this way.

So, tl;dr, they found a new way cells migrate in development, which may be the same as how some cancers might move around. Important, but not an amazing discovery.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
Uh, the paper identifies the mechanism that (healthy, nonpathological) neural crest cells migrate, which is via an interesting and newly discovered mechanism. It's a realistic conclusion to say that cancers arising from NCs may work this way. It is a much larger stretch to say that all cancers work this way.

So, tl;dr, they found a new way cells migrate in development, which may be the same as how some cancers might move around. Important, but not an amazing discovery.

While you're right to make caveats (you almost always are, in cancer research - cancer is incredibly diverse), you missed the fact that this line of research was set up from the top down as an analogy for the way cancer cells move. It's an intentional model, not an overinterpreted finding.

 

Offline Kolgena

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
The researchers definitely intended the model to be just that--a model with acknowledged limitation. The journalist seems to have forgotten that the model doesn't actually have fantastic application to cancer metastasis.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
The researchers definitely intended the model to be just that--a model with acknowledged limitation. The journalist seems to have forgotten that the model doesn't actually have fantastic application to cancer metastasis.

Well, the journalist is basing that in part on a interview with one of the authors.  The authors appear pretty confident that this is a general mechanism of coordinated migration, and would therefore be triggered and active in cancer metastasis.  The model has pretty direct application to this problem, which the authors talked about:

Quote
"We use the analogy of the donkey and the carrot to explain this behaviour: the donkey follows the carrot, but the carrot moves away when approached by the donkey,” added Prof Mayor.

"The findings suggest an alternative way in which cancer treatments might work in the future if therapies can be targeted at the process of interaction between malignant and healthy cells to stop cancer cells from spreading and causing secondary tumours.

"Most cancer deaths are not due to the formation of the primary tumour, instead people die from secondary tumours originating from the first malignant cells, which are able to travel and colonise vital organs of the body such as the lungs or the brain."

Eric Theveneau, another member of the team, added: “These cells are very similar in their behaviour to cancer cells and this could be analogous to the cancer system.”

The journalists aren't leaping to conclusions on this - the team is actively saying how directly important this research is.
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Offline Kolgena

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
I only quickly glanced over the paper, but I don't think the authors argued that the donkey/carrot model is a general mechanism for cell migration. From what I know, it seems that it would probably be a fairly specific mechanism, given that most/all cell migration and differentiation occurs through signal gradients from "non-fleeing" sources. Mind you, that's not at all a bad thing, because NC cells are fairly special in that they undergo a transition from epithelial to mesenchymal localization, which is also what all metastatic cancers do. However, whether the parallel holds meaningful when comparing each's molecular mechanisms is another issue entirely. I'm still skeptical because the mechanism requires two coordinating cell populations, the "donkey" AND the "carrot", which also happen to derive from different cell lines. I would guess that most non-NC cancers probably lack the "carrot" population either because the tissue type never had or needed one in development, or because the "carrot" population already got chased far away during normal development. In both these cases, any invasive tumors would need to arise through a separate pathway. If that's the case, then the research is not nearly as directly applicable as something that gives answers to all forms of metastasis. Even still, understanding potential mechanisms behind cancers that arise from NC (neuroblastoma, etc) is still really damn useful, so I'm glad this was done, but not so glad if people think the applications are more awesome than the data warrants.


 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
Seeing as my previous university/work subscription access to journals is now gone and I'm not paying $32 to read one damn paper (highway frickin robbery, Nature), I haven't been able to read the full work either.

However - the researchers in their media interviews and abstracts have repeatedly said they believe this likely represents a generalized mechanism and is relevant specifically to cancer metastasis, so I'm not sure why you're launching into "media blown out of proportion mode," as the media are merely quoting what the authors themselves are saying.

Now, whether the authors claims about a generalized mechanism have any scientific validity, I'm not sure - because I can't read the blasted paper itself.  However, given that the claims about applicability to cancer come from the research team and not the media, I'm more inclined to believe the data are not being blown completely out of proportion.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

  

Offline Kolgena

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Re: Cancerous metastatic mechanism appears to have been identified
Oh my bad. Thought the paper was free access, as I was on an academic network when I accessed it. And yeah, I lol every time I see a site asking me to pay double digit numbers for 24h access to 1 article... The people with that kind of money to throw away are ones that have big grants, and the ones with grants already have VPN or university access to all the major journals.

The paper itself only says "The cell interactions described here are essential for correct NC migration and for segregation of placodes in vivo and are likely to represent a general mechanism of coordinated migration" in the abstract and contains another single line that is identical in meaning to the above, but reworded, in the discussion. Those are literally the only two sentences in the entire full text saying the mechanism is general, ie, it's purely the researchers' speculation. In fact, it may be more accurate to interpret the statement as "This trick we discovered is new. Now, let's hypothesize that the same trick exists outside neural crest cells, and do more science to see if that's true". It would be a mistake to say that these claims that the mechanism is general (as of yet) hold any water.

I wouldn't say that I was bashing the reporter for inflating the findings, but I guess I have been unfair. I went back and reread and realized there wasn't a case presented which argued that the migratory mechanism was THE cancer mechanism. For some reason, I thought the thread title was a conclusion the reporter arrived at, so that's my bad. That being said, the thread title is misleading, if it is "(The) Cancerous metastatic..." rather than "(A) Cancerous metastatic..." ;)

(PS. I apologize if I'm getting a bit aggressive. I'm just here for the sake of some fun argumentation. No harm intended.)