[General Battuta]

ASOIAF was originally outlined as a trilogy, oddly enough! As of the end of Book 5, we are somewhere between Books 1 and 2 of the original outline - all the material covered in Feast and Dance was supposed to happen offscreen between Books 1 and 2 of the original outline.

[Mongoose]

Heh, interesting.  Oddly enough I had GoT itself sitting on my shelf for years, but I never got around to reading it for whatever reason, and then the TV series wound up exploding in popularity, so my brother took it anyway.  I should probably look into either one at some point.

[MP-Ryan]

The books are good, but I really should have stuck with my "don't read a series until its finished" rule, because I'm seriously concerned that GRRM has checked out of ASOIAF in the novels.  Book spoilers follow:

Spoiler:

I think Batts has a pretty good summary here - it's been pretty clear all along that GRRM was telling a story of the political details while setting up a climatic battle at the end.  Danerys has been quite obviously set up as the returning saviour to save civilization from the White Walkers.  The rest has just been an immensely entertaining sideshow.  The trouble is that the politics of Westeros as GRRM has written them are actually a great deal more interesting than the world-spanning plot, which has mostly occurred through allusion.  The way the books are currently set up, with only two left to go, it's going to be one hell of a jarring transition to go from Westeros politics to OMG we're saving the world!  ESPECIALLY as GRRM can't seem to stop ****ing adding new - and likely unimportant to the overall arc - characters.  It's pretty clear that he's much more interested in the Westerosi politics now than in the arc he's setting up between the Targaryen forces and the north.  Though I am also bloody curious about what the hell the deal is with Jon Snow - the boy is clearly important, yet last we left him it seems an awful lot like he might be getting offed.  The man has written himself into a corner, and I fully expect that if he does finish the series it will be 8 or 9 books, not the 7 he's said are now planned.  IF he finishes it.  There are so many threads he has to tie together before the finale of the series, yet we're now finished with book 5 and he hasn't even started - book 5 ADDED new threads without closing any up.  The man's outline must look like the hellspawn of an octopus, colosssal squid, and a millipede.

I quit on the TV series in season 2 after they ****ed with the plot - considerably - but now I'm thinking I should go back to it because I'm really thinking that GRRM is going to finish this saga on TV, and not in the books.  Which is sad.

[StarSlayer]

The books are good, but I really should have stuck with my "don't read a series until its finished" rule, because I'm seriously concerned that GRRM has checked out of ASOIAF in the novels.  Book spoilers follow:

Spoiler:

I think Batts has a pretty good summary here - it's been pretty clear all along that GRRM was telling a story of the political details while setting up a climatic battle at the end.  Danerys has been quite obviously set up as the returning saviour to save civilization from the White Walkers.  The rest has just been an immensely entertaining sideshow.  The trouble is that the politics of Westeros as GRRM has written them are actually a great deal more interesting than the world-spanning plot, which has mostly occurred through allusion.  The way the books are currently set up, with only two left to go, it's going to be one hell of a jarring transition to go from Westeros politics to OMG we're saving the world!  ESPECIALLY as GRRM can't seem to stop ****ing adding new - and likely unimportant to the overall arc - characters.  It's pretty clear that he's much more interested in the Westerosi politics now than in the arc he's setting up between the Targaryen forces and the north.  Though I am also bloody curious about what the hell the deal is with Jon Snow - the boy is clearly important, yet last we left him it seems an awful lot like he might be getting offed.  The man has written himself into a corner, and I fully expect that if he does finish the series it will be 8 or 9 books, not the 7 he's said are now planned.  IF he finishes it.  There are so many threads he has to tie together before the finale of the series, yet we're now finished with book 5 and he hasn't even started - book 5 ADDED new threads without closing any up.  The man's outline must look like the hellspawn of an octopus, colosssal squid, and a millipede.

I quit on the TV series in season 2 after they ****ed with the plot - considerably - but now I'm thinking I should go back to it because I'm really thinking that GRRM is going to finish this saga on TV, and not in the books.  Which is sad.

 

Spoiler:

Yeah I also really feel that even just resolving the whole White Walkers/Winter arc seems a rather steep task to flesh out in only two more books.  The last two really have suffered from the "Meanwhile in Dorne" syndrome rather than ringing up to flank on the main plot.

[zookeeper]

I don't really think there's necessarily -or even likely- any substantial problem with wrapping everything up in two large books. Look at how much stuff happens from the beginning of GoT to the end of CoK, for instance, and how much actual time they cover. Also, as we know, plotlines of individual characters can end or change in all sorts of sudden and unexpected ways. And you only need like 2 chapters for a single character to get across half the world.

Also, I find MP-Ryan's prediction of what things have really been set up for way too straightforward. It's certainly possible that that's what the end will boil down to, but I really doubt it. It would be really predictable whereas the major plot points so far have been much less so.

[Phantom Hoover]

That's because very little of the macroplot has actually happened so far. The arcs of 'secondary' characters involved in the War of the Five Kings -- your Robbs, your Jaimes -- have had shocking and unexpected trajectories. But Jon and Dany, the protagonists of the core plot of the series, haven't deviated that far from normal fantasy fare.

[zookeeper]

I guess so. But still, I wouldn't bet money on what the macroplot actually is... except that having core characters X, Y and Z team up to fight the big bad to save the world and win the throne in a three-arc structure sounds pretty unlikely to me. It might happen, with a few twists naturally, or the story can take a turn to a completely different direction.

Also, when very little of the supposed macroplot has happened so far, how do you know it is the macroplot? I don't think I'd be disappointed if, pardon the simplification, the climax of the series wasn't going to be an epic battle of humans with dragons versus evil ice zombies that want to kill everything. Things might have been building towards something else, as well.

[General Battuta]

That's because very little of the macroplot has actually happened so far. The arcs of 'secondary' characters involved in the War of the Five Kings -- your Robbs, your Jaimes -- have had shocking and unexpected trajectories. But Jon and Dany, the protagonists of the core plot of the series, haven't deviated that far from normal fantasy fare.

Well, except for

Spoiler:

getting stabbed

and

Spoiler:

****ting a lot right back where she started

. I think GRRM often decides to do the opposite of what's predictable just to be ~subversive~ but then he has no idea how to follow up. (seriously big spoilers in here)

I'm with zookeeper in that I think a more satisfying resolution to the series might be setting up the status quo for a new conflict, in much the same way that Robert's Rebellion set up the status quo for the events of the current books. The cycle don't stop (unless winter hits and everyone dies I guess)

[Ghostavo]

I find it interesting how the few fantasy elements south of the Wall all seem to put emphasis on fire - there's Melisandre and her Lord of Light, R'hallor, and there's the Targaryen dragons. Meanwhile, north of the Wall, you have the ice/cold based White Walkers, who are slowly being built up to be THE threat to the realms of man.

There's the drowned god south of the wall and whatever it is that doomed Valyria and is in the smoking sea.

The drowned god hasn't been shown to be anything more potent than a belief system, similar to the Seven.

Valyria's doom, on the other hand... I bet the Smoldering Sea is merely the nest of the REAL Mother of Dragons - the Uber-Dragoness. Dany will stumble upon her, ally/tame her, and together they'll wreak havoc single-handedly on those pretenders to the Iron Throne.

Mark my words, you heard it here first.

Have you read the books?

Spoiler:

Because Damphair seems makes his case for the drowned god as good as Melisandre makes for the lord of light. Since the beginning of the first book, magic seems to be returning to the world, and with it, every myth seems to be becoming true.

[Sandwich]

The drowned god hasn't been shown to be anything more potent than a belief system, similar to the Seven.

Valyria's doom, on the other hand... I bet the Smoldering Sea is merely the nest of the REAL Mother of Dragons - the Uber-Dragoness. Dany will stumble upon her, ally/tame her, and together they'll wreak havoc single-handedly on those pretenders to the Iron Throne.

Have you read the books?

Spoiler:

Because Damphair seems makes his case for the drowned god as good as Melisandre makes for the lord of light. Since the beginning of the first book, magic seems to be returning to the world, and with it, every myth seems to be becoming true.

I have indeed read them.

Spoiler:

I don't recall Damphair accomplishing anything fantastical or magical - just some mouth-to-mouth resuscitation on folk he drowned.

I admit though it's quite possible I'm forgetting something... care to enlighten me?

[MP-Ryan]

Hrmmm.  Much as GRRM might be setting up a new status quo, I see a few issues...

Spoiler:

For one, he has spent a considerable amount of time, when not killing off characters in the political machinations, building up the mythos in four key areas:
1.  The North (Ice) - The White Walkers and zombies clearly have a lengthy history which much time has been spent setting them up as the unseen menace for which Westeros had better get its **** together.  It would be a very strange conclusion indeed if the books concluded without addressing that part of the story in the slightest.
2.  The Targaryens and the Dragons - The primary matter of tangible 'Fire' we see in the books, while Daenerys is set up as a political figure, she's also being created as a mythological one.  Moreover, we now actually have the trifecta of Targaryens like those of old - Daenerys, Aegon, and Jon Snow (because I'm bloody positive at this point that Snow is the lovechild of Lyanna and Rhaegar, though GRRM may twist that just to screw with us), repeating the old cycle of the Targaryens come to save Westeros.
3.  The Lord of Light - Melisandre and her Lord of Light appear to be on a collision course with Jon Snow, making me see her linked up to the Targaryen forces in the not distant future.
4.  The Drowned God - Again, there are links forming between those following the Drowned God and the Targaryen forces that allude toward a role in a greater world-altering battle.

I think GRRM has passed the point of no return on effectively resolving matters in Westeros to set up a status quo to face the final threat.  He has spent far too much time world-building and hinting to leave it unresolved and still craft a meaningful and satisfying conclusion to the series.  There are too many connections and long-term machinations to simply leave it without addressing the conflict of ice and fire, and to do that justice I suspect is either going to require at least 3 more books, or two very, very long ones.

Like I said before, I think GRRM has written himself into a corner.  There is hope, however; if GRRM's health does fail before the completion of the series, Brandon Sanderson has already admirably demonstrated that he can finish someone else's series just as well (and possibly better) than the original author

[StarSlayer]

Spoiler:

  My read also is Jon Snow is Rhaegar and Lyanna's child, possibly the Prince who was Promised.  Considering the amount of foundation that his been laid, it would be quite a significant rug pull if not.  Though I have a pet theory that much of what's happened, or at least the operations carried out by Lord Varys, Illyrio Mopatis, and Connington are possibly a plan laid down by Rhaegar.  Much of my evidence is circumstantial, such as piecing together the musings of Selmy and others, but I get the feeling he might have been the kind of magnificent bastard to see through the destruction of himself and his house to secure humanities' eventual victory against the Others.

I'm also curious how the Guild of Faceless Men factor in as well.  Besides training Arya to be a murder machine, i think its implied that they had a hand in The Doom of Valaria and have infiltrated the Maesters.

[Ghostavo]

The drowned god hasn't been shown to be anything more potent than a belief system, similar to the Seven.

Valyria's doom, on the other hand... I bet the Smoldering Sea is merely the nest of the REAL Mother of Dragons - the Uber-Dragoness. Dany will stumble upon her, ally/tame her, and together they'll wreak havoc single-handedly on those pretenders to the Iron Throne.

Have you read the books?

Spoiler:

Because Damphair seems makes his case for the drowned god as good as Melisandre makes for the lord of light. Since the beginning of the first book, magic seems to be returning to the world, and with it, every myth seems to be becoming true.

I have indeed read them.

Spoiler:

I don't recall Damphair accomplishing anything fantastical or magical - just some mouth-to-mouth resuscitation on folk he drowned.

I admit though it's quite possible I'm forgetting something... care to enlighten me?

Spoiler:

For one, he drinks only sea water, the resuscitation described that he uses on those he drowns doesn't seem to be CPR and seems similar to the way Thoros resuscitates Beric, and also the fact that it is implied that he can resuscitate himself after drowning.

[Grizzly]

Spoiler:

He also has a flawless record in a world in which flawlessness does not exist

.