[Phantom Hoover]

secret wargaryens!!!!!

[Sandwich]

I find it interesting how the few fantasy elements south of the Wall all seem to put emphasis on fire - there's Melisandre and her Lord of Light, R'hallor, and there's the Targaryen dragons. Meanwhile, north of the Wall, you have the ice/cold based White Walkers, who are slowly being built up to be THE threat to the realms of man.

[Ghostavo]

I find it interesting how the few fantasy elements south of the Wall all seem to put emphasis on fire - there's Melisandre and her Lord of Light, R'hallor, and there's the Targaryen dragons. Meanwhile, north of the Wall, you have the ice/cold based White Walkers, who are slowly being built up to be THE threat to the realms of man.

There's the drowned god south of the wall and whatever it is that doomed Valyria and is in the smoking sea.

[The E]

...because if there's one thing that Westeros really needs at this point it's Cthulhu.

[Phantom Hoover]

I find it interesting how the few fantasy elements south of the Wall all seem to put emphasis on fire - there's Melisandre and her Lord of Light, R'hallor, and there's the Targaryen dragons. Meanwhile, north of the Wall, you have the ice/cold based White Walkers, who are slowly being built up to be THE threat to the realms of man.

There's the drowned god south of the wall and whatever it is that doomed Valyria and is in the smoking sea.

The doom of Valyria is all about fire, anyway. It was very possibly just a series of volcanic eruptions.

[StarSlayer]

I find it interesting how the few fantasy elements south of the Wall all seem to put emphasis on fire - there's Melisandre and her Lord of Light, R'hallor, and there's the Targaryen dragons. Meanwhile, north of the Wall, you have the ice/cold based White Walkers, who are slowly being built up to be THE threat to the realms of man.

There's the drowned god south of the wall and whatever it is that doomed Valyria and is in the smoking sea.

From the books:

Spoiler:

I formed the impression that the Guild of the Faceless Men were somehow involved with the Doom rather than it being the result of some Godzilla/Cthulhu scenario.  Specifically I assumed there was some mix of industrial/geological/magic sabotage.

[Ghostavo]

I find it interesting how the few fantasy elements south of the Wall all seem to put emphasis on fire - there's Melisandre and her Lord of Light, R'hallor, and there's the Targaryen dragons. Meanwhile, north of the Wall, you have the ice/cold based White Walkers, who are slowly being built up to be THE threat to the realms of man.

There's the drowned god south of the wall and whatever it is that doomed Valyria and is in the smoking sea.

The doom of Valyria is all about fire, anyway. It was very possibly just a series of volcanic eruptions.

If it was about fire, it would imply there were more dragons in the world than the ones that the Targaryens brought.

It's heavily implied throughout the story, that the event was magical in nature.

[Phantom Hoover]

If it was about fire, it would imply there were more dragons in the world than the ones that the Targaryens brought.

Well of course. Remember where Dany got hers?

[StarSlayer]

If it was about fire, it would imply there were more dragons in the world than the ones that the Targaryens brought.

Well of course. Remember where Dany got hers?

The Valarian Dragons laired on the slopes of the Fourteen Fires, they were said to have been all killed in the Doom.  The Targaryens retained their Dragons, and lives, because they had already left and occupied Dragonstone at the time of the Doom.

[Ghostavo]

The ability that some Targaryens have of surviving fire, also lends a hand to the claim that it wasn't fire that scared them away from Valyria.

[Sandwich]

I find it interesting how the few fantasy elements south of the Wall all seem to put emphasis on fire - there's Melisandre and her Lord of Light, R'hallor, and there's the Targaryen dragons. Meanwhile, north of the Wall, you have the ice/cold based White Walkers, who are slowly being built up to be THE threat to the realms of man.

There's the drowned god south of the wall and whatever it is that doomed Valyria and is in the smoking sea.

The drowned god hasn't been shown to be anything more potent than a belief system, similar to the Seven.

Valyria's doom, on the other hand... I bet the Smoldering Sea is merely the nest of the REAL Mother of Dragons - the Uber-Dragoness. Dany will stumble upon her, ally/tame her, and together they'll wreak havoc single-handedly on those pretenders to the Iron Throne.

Mark my words, you heard it here first.

[General Battuta]

The broad mythology (and, really, everything happening outside Westeros proper, as in Dorne up through ~Winterfell) is the least interesting part of this series, and I think GRRM probably wishes he'd never introduced it.

One nice side effect is that the most compelling parts of the story are brought to a reasonably satisfying conclusion at the end of Storm. ASOIAF has interesting things to say about political power, cyclical violence, short-sightedness and passion, and banal familiar things to say about absolute evil and dull fantasy prophecies.

[StarSlayer]

War of the Roses

[Black Wolf]

The broad mythology (and, really, everything happening outside Westeros proper, as in Dorne up through ~Winterfell) is the least interesting part of this series, and I think GRRM probably wishes he'd never introduced it.

What on earth makes you think that? It's pretty obvious from the supplementary material that he's released that GRRM has a big beardy hardon for dragons, and that the story is focussed largely on them. The whole plot (and for those who've nit read the books yet, this is still somewhat visible from the TV show already) is leading towards Dany bringing her dragons to Westeris. That's the endgame, it's clearly obvious. And the dragons are intimately tied up with the whole rest of the mythology, and the fire/ice symbolism that's rampant throughout the books. Even a cursory reading of the books makes it pretty obvious that, in the authors mind at least, the activities in westeros are mainly there as a context to drop the magic and (especially) the dragons into.

FWIW, I agree that the westerosi stuff is far more interesting than Dany wandering around in the desert, or much of the north of the wall stuff, or Arya's most recent adventures (in the books, she's still busy being awesome in the show). But I think it's pretty obvious that GRRM sees the magic and mythology as fundamental, not incidental, to his story.

[General Battuta]

1   A Game of Thrones           August 1996
2   A Clash of Kings           February 1999
3   A Storm of Swords           November 2000
4   A Feast for Crows           November 2005
5   A Dance with Dragons   July 2011
6   The Winds of Winter   The Official Novelization of the Hit HBO TV Series
7   A Dream of Spring            lol

[General Battuta]

I disagree with your reading of the books too, but really those dates are all you need.

[Black Wolf]

Calling bull**** on the "Books take longer and therefore the author hates magic" argument. It's nonsensical - there are other factors that slow down creative work, as you of all people would know. It seems just as (if not more) likely that the books are taking longer because it gets harder and harder to stay motivated on a project he's been undertaking for over two decades now.

[General Battuta]

Fortunately GRRM provides good evidence that his creative output in general hasn't waned, just his ability to focus on ASOIAF. I'd definitely agree that it's getting harder and harder for him to stay motivated, but I think it's because he's written all the material he can actually engage with and now he's left with checks he neither knows how to nor particularly cares to cash.

Consider your assertion that he's been working on the project for two decades, and then consider how much of that window was spent on the quality segments of the series that established it as something worth reading. It's not much.

As you said, I of all people understand what should slow down creative work - more so than you even realize, since I have a lot of insight into GRRM's creative process through mutual author acquaintances. And, indeed, I have a very good idea about what's slowing down creative work here.

e: I don't know where 'the author hates magic comes from' - seems orthogonal. Set it aside.

[General Battuta]

The gurm is a self-avowed gardener and really I think he planted a bunch of stuff and then realized he didn't know how to feed it, let alone cook something tasty with it. So he just grabbed the lemons and made a lemoncake - which was delicious, even if it left everyone wanting more - and now he wants to take up cards (wild cards).

[Mongoose]

Considering both this and Wheel of Time, I kind of wonder if my personal assertion that fantasy writers should stick to trilogies at the most really does hold some water...