[Lorric]

I keep trying to write a full message and keep messing it up. I might have another go at it some other time. But the bottom line is I've basically been persuaded. I hope 2015 sees HLP be a more welcoming place.

[666maslo666]

To be honest, I'm a little too stunned at what I've been reading to form a response, but I'll try...

Those who have been the victim of sexual abuse do not spend their entire online lives on forums dedicated to what happened to them, they actually want to put it behind them, just because this is not a forum for rape abuse victims doesn't mean that nobody on this forum has ever suffered sexual abuse, and I'm not even sure how that particular fact adds up to 'permission to tell rape jokes' in the first place, it reeks of 'Quick! They're not looking, now we can tell jokes about the horrible thing that happened to them!'.

To be honest, I'm not sure I feel at all comfortable being associated with that kind of mentality.

The fact that rape victims dont spend their entire lives on dedicated forums is precisely why it is completely absurd to expect them to never encounter a rape joke. Controversial jokes including rape jokes (no special exceptions) are occasionally part of life outside of specific places that cater to their victims. Make no mistake, being strongly triggered by every rape joke is a psychiatric diagnosis. It is not something normal, not even among sexual assault victims. We should not go out of our way to be triggering to rape victims, which is why I said every joke has a time and a place. But we certainly should not change entire society and censor ourselves just to cater to a very small minority of psychologically abnormal people. They are the ones with an issue and need therapy or support, not the society.

This forum has no connection to sexual assault. It is a totally neutral place from that perspective, just like 99% of the internet and the world. So this is not about rape at all. This is about whether we are allowed to tell slightly violent or triggering or controversial jokes, in general. Or we are not. I think we should be.

[666maslo666]

Also, the joke in question was not even a rape joke. Its about gender stereotypes taken ad absurdum (meant to be a satire of microaggressions or "first-world problems" of radical feminism). There is no rape and the joke is not about rape.

[Flipside]

Yes, victims should accommodate other people's sick sense of humour borne of their ignorance of what the other person endured, that's a great way to approach the world...

God this forum makes me sick sometimes...

[The E]

This is about whether we are allowed to tell slightly violent or triggering or controversial jokes, in general. Or we are not. I think we should be.

Why should you be? Can you make a case why horrible jokes should be an OK thing to make? Why your right to free speech (as laughable and inapplicable as it is in this venue) trumps the expectation of people coming here not to be reminded of horrible events in their lives?

You are absolutely right, this is not a "rape survivor" forum. But neither is this a "make fun of rape" forum.

[karajorma]

This is about whether we are allowed to tell slightly violent or triggering or controversial jokes, in general. Or we are not. I think we should be.

And the vast majority of the board seems to disagree with you, as does every single member of the moderation staff who has bothered to post. So guess what, you're outvoted. Take that **** somewhere it is appreciated, cause it isn't wanted here.

[Luis Dias]

I never thought my joke would explode these emotions from so many people and that was never my intention. I also don't think overreacting or reading too much into what other people are saying is required. 666 is not saying something utterly despicable, and I really doubt that this reaction will convince him he's wrong at all. The only reason I kept commenting here was to try to understand the position of utter grossness that some people got out of what I deemed very differently, and the only gripe that still remains in my head is how trigger happy some people are about reporting stuff like my own satire that I wrote before that joke, and then come back and say I'm the intolerant one that doesn't just pat in their heads and say condescendingly "I understand sorry".

I actually had more respect for you than that, and no, I wasn't being the intolerant one. If you guys have any problem with what I am saying, I tell you that personally you will end any drama real fast if you actually talk to me personally rather than calling the dean on the schoolyard and tell them I'm misbehaving. Because when I do "misbehave", I don't do it on purpose. I might be doing it like an elephant in a glass store, and I apologize for that. But no, calling me a colossal asshole is probably not the best approach to shut it down.

[Flipside]

To be honest Luis, I think this has gone way beyond the specific joke you posted. That would have just led to an 'Oi! Calm it down!' reaction and that would have been pretty much that.

The bigger problem was the attitude towards these kinds of jokes that followed in some cases.

The world is a nasty place that says nasty things because people give themselves permission to do so because 'the world is a nasty place that says nasty things'... The cause thinks it is the effect, and that is the problem.

[Lorric]

Yes, victims should accommodate other people's sick sense of humour borne of their ignorance of what the other person endured, that's a great way to approach the world...

God this forum makes me sick sometimes...

Please don't say that. There is nothing sick about enjoying these kinds of jokes.

To me, it truly is innocent fun the way I look at it, and it's not about rape. Calling this joke innocent may come as a great surprise to some people, but it really is to me.

Even if I understand there is a potential for someone to be emotionally disturbed by the joke, it doesn't change my sense of humour on the matter at all, or make me sick for enjoying it.

I just wanted to chime in and voice my agreement with what the other staff members have said in here.  We want this to be a place where everyone is welcome, and a few of you REALLY need to take some lessons in social etiquette if you think that those jokes are considered appropriate for a general audience.  There are plenty of ****holes all over the Internet where such things are acceptable (like the aforementioned reddit!), so if you're that determined to post them, I highly suggest you do so there.

This post was very interesting to me. I also know it would take the right kind of person to speak these words to get me to really consider them, which in itself is quite interesting. And thankfully Mongoose, you are that kind of person. You've always been a very friendly person in my opinion around here, and I've always found my interactions with you pleasant and enjoyable. So when you say something like a few of us really need lessons in social skills, it makes me think you're really serious about this, where someone else, I might instead see it as an expression of smug superiority and contempt.

The thing is, life teaches us social skills, and my life would teach me this is nothing. Rape-style language is everywhere. It's in the open, it's not something hidden in dark corners, it's in the open, and it's normal. A common phrase I hear for instance is "so I should just bend over and take it?" or some other variation, like "He just bent over and took it." "They think I'll just bend over and take it." It's not exactly a rape saying, but a common saying I hear is "All mouth and no trousers."

Funnily enough I watched a Youtube video yesterday, and a rape joke was told in it. Video has nothing to do with rape jokes, it just came out in casual conversation in the middle of the video.

[karajorma]

Given your history on this forum, you're pretty much the last person who should be defending what is and isn't an innocent joke, especially when dealing with the subject of rape.


In the end, this entire shameful excuse for a thread comes down to people desperately trying to claim that they aren't in the wrong for doing something that the moderators have already told them repeatedly not to be doing. People really, really need to stop putting such effort into defending their right to be awful, inconsiderate, unempathetic, human beings.

And if you really, really have to defend your right to be like that, do it elsewhere cause I'm closing this thread and I don't ever want to see this kind of **** on HLP ever again.