[Flipside]

Well, by all means, post those kinds of jokes to that particular forum, it's true, this place may not be a rape-victim convention but, this is a public forum dedicated to a Space Game that is designed to appeal to gamers of all ages, it's not some kind of private club where we can metaphorically unbutton our jeans and let it all hang out.

Let me put forward one simple thought. This Forum is releasing Mods of increasing quality and they are gaining increasing interest in Media circles, as Diaspora showed. Do we really, as a community, want representatives of Media that may be able to promote and raise awareness of Mods to a massive degree coming here and finding that kind of attitude on the General Discussion forum? Do you think it would increase or decrease the chances of those Mods getting the coverage they deserve?

[The E]

But here on HLP? I dont think it is too inappropriate. The joke itself was pretty funny if I can say so, and it was not really endorsing rape because its entire premise and punchline is about the fact that there is no actual rape happening. It could be a lot worse as far as rape jokes go.

Why would you think HLP is a safe space for this bull****? Do you honestly believe that the moderating staff wants it to be, despite everything people with mod badges have said in this thread?

We want HLP to be welcoming to most people. Frankly put, the style of humour employed by Luis here and endorsed by you has no place here.

[666maslo666]

The default state is that slightly controversial jokes are allowed in informal setting. Unless they are particularly distasteful or spammed around, and this was neither.

I see no reason to treat HLP general discussion differently. This is not a rape survivor forum or a forum for little kids.

[Lorric]

Please don't force your narrow definitions of what is good and what is not upon the rest of us.

Flipside, I wouldn't worry. The chances of such a person even coming in here I think would be low, and even if they did, this is tame compared to the semi-regular occurances where we tear each other apart over things. And do you really believe it would influence them to change their mind? I mean really? Would you? Would you care? Why would you care?

666maslos666, thanks for the link. I'm really taken with this new style of humour and I will be checking it out later.

It's also nice to know Luis and I are not standing alone on an island with regard to this kind of humour.

[Spoon]

Why would you think HLP is a safe space for this bull****? Do you honestly believe that the moderating staff wants it to be, despite everything people with mod badges have said in this thread?

We want HLP to be welcoming to most people. Frankly put, the style of humour employed by Luis here and endorsed by you has no place here.

HLP GD hasn't been a hugbox for years, I don't see why its suddenly supposed to be a 'trigger free' zone.
I for one like black and 'inapproprate' kind of humor, it bugs me how I keep seeing people throwing hissy fits about jokes here. Grow a thicker skin instead of getting all sensitive about the little things in life. Enforcing political correctness, blah.

[Lorric]

Why would you think HLP is a safe space for this bull****? Do you honestly believe that the moderating staff wants it to be, despite everything people with mod badges have said in this thread?

We want HLP to be welcoming to most people. Frankly put, the style of humour employed by Luis here and endorsed by you has no place here.

HLP GD hasn't been a hugbox for years, I don't see why its suddenly supposed to be a 'trigger free' zone.
I for one like black and 'inapproprate' kind of humor, it bugs me how I keep seeing people throwing hissy fits about jokes here. Grow a thicker skin instead of getting all sensitive about the little things in life. Enforcing political correctness, blah.

Yeah, I basically agree with this.

I was just thinking to myself how I'd react if the roles were reversed. In fact, let's take it up a couple of notches. So tomorrow, I log in. There's some new content in the jokes thread. And it makes me feel dirty. It makes my skin crawl. And I'm not the only one. But there are also people enjoying it. And the joke itself is harmless, it just goes really badly against my own personal tastes.

What do I do? Nothing. That's what. What right have I to place my sense of humour and personal tastes above those of others if the joke itself is harmless? Why spoil their fun? I'm not going to get up in arms because today the World didn't pander to my every sensibility. Especially when I will recognise the spirit in which the post was made.

[The E]

So because it's ok to make ****ty rape jokes elsewhere, it should be ok here too?

Please don't force your narrow definitions of what is good and what is not upon the rest of us.

Yeah, sorry, but "forcing my definitions on what is good and what is not" on the rest of you is kinda part of the job description of forum moderator.

Flipside, I wouldn't worry. The chances of such a person even coming in here I think would be low, and even if they did, this is tame compared to the semi-regular occurances where we tear each other apart over things. And do you really believe it would influence them to change their mind? I mean really? Would you? Would you care? Why would you care?

What.

Let me turn this around on you, do you honestly believe this place is better if rape jokes are an ok thing to post? What do you think is the positive impact of letting such bull**** stand without discussion or repercussions?

It's also nice to know Luis and I are not standing alone on an island with regard to this kind of humour.

Well, you kinda are. It's not that this kind of humour has no place anywhere, it's just that it has no place here.

I for one like black and 'inapproprate' kind of humor, it bugs me how I keep seeing people throwing hissy fits about jokes here. Grow a thicker skin instead of getting all sensitive about the little things in life. Enforcing political correctness, blah.

So back when we banned people over being ****ty towards suicidal people, was that wrong too? Should we have told them that they should toughen up and grow a thicker skin too?

[Lorric]

So because it's ok to make ****ty rape jokes elsewhere, it should be ok here too?

You think they're ****ty. Others don't.

Yeah, sorry, but "forcing my definitions on what is good and what is not" on the rest of you is kinda part of the job description of forum moderator.

No it's not. You don't get to shape this place into an extension of your own personal tastes. You're here to enforce the forum rules, equally and impartially. The forum rules are not your definitions of what is good and what is not. The forum rules were not solely created by you.

What.

Let me turn this around on you, do you honestly believe this place is better if rape jokes are an ok thing to post? What do you think is the positive impact of letting such bull**** stand without discussion or repercussions?

If we were going to remove things that made this place worse, this would be far, far, FAR down the list. If it even belongs on the list at all. I don't think it does.

[Flipside]

To be honest, I'm a little too stunned at what I've been reading to form a response, but I'll try...

Those who have been the victim of sexual abuse do not spend their entire online lives on forums dedicated to what happened to them, they actually want to put it behind them, just because this is not a forum for rape abuse victims doesn't mean that nobody on this forum has ever suffered sexual abuse, and I'm not even sure how that particular fact adds up to 'permission to tell rape jokes' in the first place, it reeks of 'Quick! They're not looking, now we can tell jokes about the horrible thing that happened to them!'.

To be honest, I'm not sure I feel at all comfortable being associated with that kind of mentality.

[Lorric]

Well, speaking just for me, I don't actually plan on posting rape jokes here. And the one I posted, I had no idea it had anything to do with rape, even remotely. This particular style of humour however is not about rape, and I appreciate what it is about.

For me this is more about the notion of trying to stamp something out just because they personally don't like it.

[The E]

What do I do? Nothing. That's what. What right have I to place my sense of humour and personal tastes above those of others if the joke itself is harmless? Why spoil their fun? I'm not going to get up in arms because today the World didn't pander to my every sensibility. Especially when I will recognise the spirit in which the post was made.

Which is your prerogative. Other people have differing opinions on the subject, and if someone has enough of a problem with a given post to report it, we kinda have to take a look at it and make a decision about whether to engage or not. Which means that sometimes we end up agreeing with the person who made the report.

Also, this statement coming from someone who not very long ago went on a spree of reporting everything he found slightly objectionable and who very recently resumed the habit of acting like a backseat moderator is rather strange.

No it's not. You don't get to shape this place into an extension of your own personal tastes. You're here to enforce the forum rules, equally and impartially. The forum rules are not your definitions of what is good and what is not. The forum rules were not solely created by you.

Fun fact: I do get to exercise my own judgment in these things. So my personal views on matters like these does come into it, which is why we have more than one moderator.

If we were going to remove things that made this place worse, this would be far, far, FAR down the list. If it even belongs on the list at all. I don't think it does.

Answer the question, please.

[Lorric]

Also, this statement coming from someone who not very long ago went on a spree of reporting everything he found slightly objectionable and who very recently resumed the habit of acting like a backseat moderator is rather strange.

I'm not going to engage with you if you're going to do this.

I do not report things I find slightly objectionable.

[Scotty]

Past tense.  There was a point in time where you reported quite a lot of things simply because you disagreed with their content.  The present tense part of that sentence refers to your habit of trying to play moderator.

[Lorric]

I only ever reported things that I thought broke the rules.

[Scotty]

That's probably why you don't write the rules, then, because a lot of those were very, very far from breaking the rules.  And it's still ultimately irrelevant.

As has been alluded to in this thread by The_E and Karajorma already, HLP's acceptable behavior policy may not match up with what you, personally, think is acceptable behavior.  In a conflict between these two sets of values, the site values win, as enforced by moderators.  Arguing that something is acceptable somewhere else is not a valid argument.  Arguing that something should be acceptable because of x, y, or z is not (necessarily) a valid argument.

Put quite simply, neither you, nor any other individual user determine what constitutes acceptable behavior on HLP.  You're welcome to try and find out through trial and error, but do not be surprised or complain or argue about it when we determine you've crossed a line.  That's what warnings are for.

[Spoon]

So back when we banned people over being ****ty towards suicidal people, was that wrong too? Should we have told them that they should toughen up and grow a thicker skin too?

I don't know as I don't have any context about any of those events. Define 'being ****ty' for me.

Edit: I guess what actually bugs me is on how much **** Luis dias and Lorric are getting in this thread.

[Mongoose]

I just wanted to chime in and voice my agreement with what the other staff members have said in here.  We want this to be a place where everyone is welcome, and a few of you REALLY need to take some lessons in social etiquette if you think that those jokes are considered appropriate for a general audience.  There are plenty of ****holes all over the Internet where such things are acceptable (like the aforementioned reddit!), so if you're that determined to post them, I highly suggest you do so there.

[deathfun]

So back when we banned people over being ****ty towards suicidal people, was that wrong too? Should we have told them that they should toughen up and grow a thicker skin too?

Going to chime in here since it directly applies to me, I have no problem with those types of people

Actually, was that what happened to Nuke outright?

[Scotty]

We gave Nuke some time off for telling someone to go shoot up a school to help their depression.  I honestly don't know whether that ban has expired or not, but I certainly don't miss his attitude.

[karajorma]

Karajorma have you read my PM?

I have now, if you'd still like me to act on it, send me a message.

Flipside, I wouldn't worry. The chances of such a person even coming in here I think would be low, and even if they did, this is tame compared to the semi-regular occurances where we tear each other apart over things. And do you really believe it would influence them to change their mind? I mean really? Would you? Would you care? Why would you care?

Obviously you are unaware that the obnoxious attitudes of some posters on this board to the Space Shuttle crash is the main reason that Dave B no longer posts on here. So yes, if it comes down to having a forum with rape jokes or a forum where one of the people who wrote Freespace 2 posts, I'm going to choose the latter.

As for the this is tame compared to other **** that sometimes happens, the idea is to stamp out that ****. We don't want that happening any more either.