[Nico]

can never have a serious argument with you. I like Westwod games, renegade is awesome, and in case you don't know, it's a FPS, not a RTS. but as your brain seems thicker than the dirt on the wall in front of my apartment...
I'm not sure what you mean by " dig real start" ( the "dig" part ), but if the CéC series works that well, it's coz it's FUN, unlike games like, pff... dunno... a realistic RTS? Dunno any anyway. If you want real start, go and play panzer general, and then die from boredom
Really, I hate when people don't know what they're talking about. You've never played in C&C online, don't you? try tanks rushes against me in RA2, for a laught.
Anyway, once again I waste my time arguing for nothing, so end of rant.

[Stryke 9]

Originally posted by venom2506

Really, I hate when people don't know what they're talking about.

I think that sums it up right there. Yes, I gave Westwood's crapulous games their chance. They're the dullest, and the worst, I've ever seen made in over ten years. Every bullet hits its target, the difference between units is basically just speed and power of weapons, and the terrain is generally nothing more than a few lines you can't cross. Worst. Games. Ever. Simple as that.

I'm sure there are movie nuts who claim that, say, Titanic or SW Ep. 1  is the best movie ever, and that anyone who disagrees is a moron who knows nothing about the high art of movies? Yyou know what? Their infantile approach doesn't make them any less staggeringly wrong. Ask any REAL strat gamer his opinion on the Westwood games- you'll get the same response you did from me. They're fluff.


You think that because the sell, they have to be good? That's a pathetic argument- you seen what passes for TV these days? WHat's in the box offices and best-seller lists? You think games are any different from every other part of popular culture? Time to get a reality check, man. Crap generally wins out, because people are generally too damn lazy to think. Works doubly in computers, because the majority are computer-illiterate and expect the same sort of mindless entertainment they get from TV. You know, Minesweeper is a much more popular game than Go. Wanna know whY? 'Cos peopel like you can't be arsed to fire a neuron once in a while. That's it.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Stryke 9

 Every bullet hits its target, the difference between units is basically just speed and power of weapons, and the terrain is generally nothing more than a few lines you can't cross.

 

that proves you've never really played them. a single exemple: in the first C&c, the tank inability to hit infantry because of the accuracy needed to hit them pissed me off ( you have to hit right into the target to hurt it, was easy for a tank, not an infantry ), and you had to run over the infantry to get rid of them. I've been into red alert modding, and I've played a lot with the ini files. and you know what? you couldn't believe how many entries you have for a single vehicle, and entry for each type of terran ( a hummer will go faster on a road than in the grass, as you would have noticed if you had really played, and not launched the game writting down all the critics you were about to throw at it ile the game was loading ), there's an inaccuracy factor for every weapon, a range, and an amount of fuel for missiles ( missiles can miss their target, unlike in starcraft for esemple ). there's a type factor, meaning that a sniper bullet will be very efficient against infantry and useless against tanks, and a shell tank will be devastating for a building, but not that efficient against an heavily armored  mammoth tank ). There's many things like that, but, assuming, you'd know that wouldn't be there, you didn't ven try and look at if they existed or not. I keep my statement, that you've never PLAYED any C&C game, you've just run them to criticize, period.

edit: and where the hell did I say C&C was good coz it sold well? Don't make me say what i didn't. As for "firing neurons", achieve half the things I've already done in my life thanx to my sole brains, then I'll allow you to criticize me.

[Ace]

The original C&C I enjoyed for many of the reasons Venom stated. However when Westwood did not change the formula of the game over time, I quickly became bored and irritated with the series.

...and before I hear "if it ain't broke don't fix it" this was a case of dilberately milking what was originally a quality product and then turning it into well mediocrity over time.

[Stryke 9]

Never mind that the whole thing was a ripoff of their Dune game in the first place- which, aside from the fact that it's actually a bit better, is pretty much the reason I exempt Dune from my general criticism of Westwood. But, considering how formulaic the games were, they could at least have picked a better formula- it IS tank rushing, and that's about it.

Venom: Uh huh. Right. 'Cos, you know, last time I saw, even when the tanks hit pieces fo dirt the infantry had previously occupied, the infantry felt the hit. Seems like YOU'VE hardly played the game.

Yeah, you're a real Ghandi or Einstein, I'm sure. What's your job? You a secretary? Office worker? Maybe even some pimply counselor at an adventure camp? Don't come off all snotty to me, son, anyone who responds to (truthful and fair, but that's irrelevant) criticism of a ****ing COMPUTER GAME like it's a direct insult to their manhood, mother, and car has the mentality of a twelve-year-old, and is not worth more than mild contempt. Go pen an angsty poem or wail about how life isn't fair, why don't you.

By the way, EVERY ONE of the "features" you listed comes in even the most basic true strats. I'm talking ****ing Declaration of War here, things that almost are the same on paper. Nothing to write home about- nothing to even mention, if you're claiming to be a strategy game, unless you wanna be laughed back onto the shelves for a very, very long time. I've seen shareware with greater complexity than C&C.

[Nico]

"reads stryke's post"
You expect a reply to what is basically just an insulting post?
play alone kid.

[Stryke 9]

Hell, it seems to work for you, one would think you'd have the common decency not to expect others to read yours unless you did hte same for them.

[Nico]

I have the common decency of not insulting people. You should try, some day.

[Stryke 9]

but as your brain seems thicker than the dirt on the wall in front of my apartment...

Really, I hate when people don't know what they're talking about

you didn't ven try and look at if they existed or not. I keep my statement, that you've never PLAYED any C&C game, you've just run them to criticize, period.

Etc., etc., etc., blah, blah, blah, list goes on, all that ****.

No comment.

[Nico]

we don't have the same definition of insulting ( I'll grant you the first one tho ). If arguing agaisnt what you say is insulting you, I understand why you hate everything.
bah, I don't care.

[Stealth]

step up to the challenge venom!  
It takes a real man to walk away from a fight

Kudos to you!

[Stryke 9]

Assuming that I'm making **** up just because I disagree with your estimation of the game would qualify as "insulting".

If I felt insulted by every idea that disagreed with mine, first of all I wouldn't like to argue so much, and second of all I'd act more like you when I did. I do neither, and I like it when someone has a well-thought-out concept radically different from any of mine and can convey it. Conversely, that means it annoys me all the more when someone clearly HASN'T thought something out, but still insists on defending their "point" rabidly, descending to insults, character attacks, and assumptions that the other is a moron. It's the signature of a troll, and troll hunting is ALSO one of my hobbies.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
It's the signature of a troll, and troll hunting is ALSO one of my hobbies.

hehe lol Stryke

[Stryke 9]

Sharrup. It's communicable by proximity.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by venom2506
mmh, jealous of renegade.
Damn them, why the hell console only?

1/  money.  - more money from console games
2/ competition - there's less FPS typey games on consoles. (ok technically, it's not an FPS per se)

And Pc conversion takes time and money - you have rewrite a lot of code in some occassions, and there is massive hardware differences.  It's the same in reverse - look at how long it took to convert Half Life and Deus Ex to the PS2.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
Assuming that I'm making **** up just because I disagree with your estimation of the game would qualify as "insulting".

If I felt insulted by every idea that disagreed with mine, first of all I wouldn't like to argue so much, and second of all I'd act more like you when I did. I do neither, and I like it when someone has a well-thought-out concept radically different from any of mine and can convey it. Conversely, that means it annoys me all the more when someone clearly HASN'T thought something out, but still insists on defending their "point" rabidly, descending to insults, character attacks, and assumptions that the other is a moron. It's the signature of a troll, and troll hunting is ALSO one of my hobbies.

well, i feel insulted whebn you say I have the menatl age of a 12 years old dude, that i'm a moron, a troll, etc. compare with what I said.
Anyway, funny how you demonstrate that you do exactly the opposite of what you say you're doing in the same post
anyway, you don't need to reply , it's the last time I check this thread, it has lost all interest.

[Stryke 9]

Did I ever deny I was being insulting? It's no less an accurate summation of the ass you've made yourself here because it's insulting.

[Stealth]

change of subject:  anyone want to get 0wned at Starcraft?  i'll bet you won't beat me!

[gevatter Lars]

The only thing I have to say about Starcraft Ghost is....aren't there enough shooter out there? I mean we have Counterstrike (old but good), Unreal 2003, DooM 3, Quake 3, Halo, these other 2 I forgot the name of.
Isn't there any room for a god tactic game? Blizzard, please make a tactic game again, for me and all the others who love SC.
I mean WarCraft 3 is quite good, but its not StarCraft.
And please don't make it 3D! 2D is all what I need and want.

[Admiral LSD]

Originally posted by gevatter Lars
The only thing I have to say about Starcraft Ghost is....aren't there enough shooter out there? I mean we have Counterstrike (old but good), Unreal 2003, DooM 3, Quake 3, Halo, these other 2 I forgot the name of.
Isn't there any room for a god tactic game? Blizzard, please make a tactic game again, for me and all the others who love SC.
I mean WarCraft 3 is quite good, but its not StarCraft.
And please don't make it 3D! 2D is all what I need and want.

From what I understand (and admittedly, it's not much) there is only one game in the same league as what they intend Ghost to be (and its the one reason I'm looking forward to it) and thats Metal Gear Solid. It isn't a first person game so it won't compete directly with any of the titles you mention.