Author Topic: The truth is out there  (Read 5826 times)

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Offline Sheepy

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Yes i obey my master .... What do you require Grand Master an0n?
Kiss my Fluffy White Ass!

 

Offline Razor

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Quote
Originally posted by Stealth




Razor, i know... i was just kidding, that's why i put the :p smilie in it ;) :wink: :nod: :cool: an0n took it seriously! :p


Ok I get it now. I admit, I took it seriously too. I try to be as carefull with grammar and spelling as often as possible, but as any other human I make mistakes.

 

Offline Razor

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Quote
Originally posted by Sheepy
Yes i obey my master .... What do you require Grand Master an0n?


Open a window Sheepy. Get some air!

 

Offline Sheepy

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Master says fresh air numbs the brain .... master never lies
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Offline an0n

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Quote
Originally posted by Sheepy
Yes i obey my master .... What do you require Grand Master an0n?

A guillotine and a silver platter............and some fireworks.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Sheepy

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*goes to get the items in question ....*
Kiss my Fluffy White Ass!

 

Offline Redfang

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I do believe in extraterrestial life, but not in that that aliens have visited Earth.

 

Offline Levyathan

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Quote
Originally posted by Stealth
I don't believe in aliens/extra-terrestrial beings.


Me neither. Those liar bastards!

 

Offline diamondgeezer

I beileve quite firmly. But then, I read von Daniken, which has left me with an inability to take religion seriously (even more so than before)

 

Offline mikhael

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Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
I beileve quite firmly. But then, I read von Daniken...


Don't tell me you buy into that crackpot...
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline Razor

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Quote
Originally posted by Sheepy
Master says fresh air numbs the brain .... master never lies


Your lack of clear judgement is evident.

 

Offline diamondgeezer

Quote
Originally posted by mikhael


Don't tell me you buy into that crackpot...



:nod:


OK, most of his actual examples are bollocks. He accuses the religious historians of ignoring facts which don't fit their arguments and warping other facts to suit their position, then he goes and does it himself.

However, there are some simple facts which I find very interesting. The fact that the Ark would have made a potent battery and radio reciever. Five thousand year old pyramids which we couldn't rebuild with today's technology. Native American traditions which talk explicitly about travellers form other stars landing in space ships (rather than spirits descending from heaven, etc). The ancient religion of Jainism, which produced pictures of huge flying ships seven thousand years before the Wright Brothers or NASA got their arses into gear. The weird 'mixed' animals we find in pictures from allover the ancient world, the kind of hybrids we could probably reproduce with modern genetic jiggery-pokery.

And what strikes me the most is the fact that, deep down, all the major religions are identical, with only minor cosmetic differences. We find the same stories all over the world - Noah, the Epic of Gilgamesh, and the creation of the world - identical stories, retold to suit the culture telling them but unmistakably the same.

As was pointed out to me during my geology lectures, the story of Genesis is basically correct - first came the heavens, than the earth, than the seas then the plants and animals and then finally us lot. Like I say, all major religions got the creation myth geologically and paleontologically accurate. Impressive stuff for people who thought the world was flat or that the sun came out of the sky god's arse :). Plus, God (or whoever you believe runs the show) is/was one helluva physicist to have come up with stuff like hydrogen bonding and gravity, without which we probably wouldn't be here. Me hat goes off...

And why did the ancient people pay such particular attention to certain stars? The Egyptians, for example, obsessed over Sirrius, even though Sirrius is on the horizon in Egypt and can barely be seen for most of the year. What was so important about it?

How come pyramids in South America, Africa and Asia are aligned with the same stars?

I could happily go on all night, but now I'll get on to the fun stuff. Everyone remember that episode of TNG with the pre-industrial Vulcanoids the Federation were studying? The Ferderation outpost was accidentally revealed to the locals, and Picard had to convince them that he was not an almighty and vengeful god, despite the natives seeing Crusher 'bring someone back from the dead' and the transporter making people disappear into thin air.

And finally, let's look to S:AAB (yeah I know, :rolleyes:. You can say it, I know it). During WWII, the Merkins used Navajo (s/p?) radio operators, since Navajo was the one language the Jerries coudn't crack. So why did Terran Command attempt to deliver false information to the Chigs written in Navajo? How could a completely alien civilization understand a language even humans struggled with? Iiiiinteresting...


Additional point - I know this stuff happens a lot in Merkin Land, but apparently a school up in Sunderland (the NE of England, for those who don't know and who might actully care) has dropped any form of geology or what have you and is now teaching Creationism as the only truth about the history of the world. That makes me so unspeakably angry... this is why I Don't Do Religion(tm)


Right, where's me asbestos underwear? *braces for flames o' plenty*


Wow, that nearly killed me writing all that. I think I'll ctrl+c at this point, just in case... right, enough theology for one day, back to hunting for celebrity porn for me :)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2002, 06:11:41 pm by 170 »

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer

 Five thousand year old pyramids which we couldn't rebuild with today's technology.

But could build perfectly easily with 10,000 slaves and several decades. This argument is a bit of old bunk that just won't die, however unconnected to reality it is.

Quote
Native American traditions which talk explicitly about travellers form other stars landing in space ships (rather than spirtits descending fomr heaven, etc).


As opposed to the people who live in the clouds, the sea, the trees, etc. THOSE ones are just myths- but when it happens to involve the night sky, hey, they were on to something!

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The ancient religion of Jainism, which produced pictures of huge flying ships seven thousand years before the Wright Brothers or NASA got their arses into gear. The pictures of wierd 'mixed' animals we find in pictures from allover the ancient world, the kind of hybrids we could probably reproduce with modern genetic jiggery-pokery.


I'd have to see the pictures, I'll reserve my opinion. And no, you could NOT successfully make a basilisk out of chicken and snake genes, much less make it turn stuff to stone. If you tried a Frankenstein hybrid like that (like any of them), the thing would just plain die in the womb, which isn't the stuff legends are made of. I suppose it's completely irrelevant that children habitually "hybrid" animals of this sort in their imagination as a way of describing unknown animals, too, but hey.

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And what strikes me the most is the fact that, deep down, all the major religions are identical, with only minor cosmetic differences. We find the same stories all over the world - Noah, the Epic of Gilgamesh, and the creation of the world - identical stories, retold to suit the culture telling them but unmistakably the same.


Ever try to write a story that has nothing at all in common with any other story ever written? It'll suck. People like very specific things to happen in their plots, and they like it to have something to do with the world they live in. The "great flood" thing is of more interest, since there appears to be some actual evidence of a giant flood, things like water marks on the Sphinx, but I dunno.

Quote
As was pointed out to me during my geology lectures, the story of Genesis is basically correct - first came the heavens, than the earth, than the seas then the plants and animals and then finally us lot. Like is say, all major religions got the creation myth geologically accurate. Impressive stuff for people who thought the world was flat or that the sun came out of the sky god's arse


Now THAT'D be a religion I could buy into. :D

Anyway, yes, odd that they should get one thing roughly correct out of a thousand. Odd, particularly because it's really the only thing that'd make sense- if animals came before the Earth, they wouldn't be anyplae, no would they?


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How come pyramids in South America, Africa and Asia are aligned with the same stars?


Because they look like something, were more prominent than others, and most theologies of the time worshiped the sky?

Anyway, enough of that. Most of the "theories" that aliens once came down and communicated with mankind have some sort of massive logic hole like this, or don't take into account the fact that humans are much the same everywhere.

 

Offline diamondgeezer

Welly, furry muff Stryke, but if paleo-SETI is as flawed as you say it is then it's no worse off than the major religions, and frankly I'm happier believing in the grey dudes than in the beardy dude - at least they don't demand that I spend sunday mornings freezing my arse off singing about how great they are, and as far as I know, nobody's ever started a war because their neighbours believed in different aliens :)



Man, that was a long sentance

 

Offline vyper

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Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Welly, furry muff Stryke


:wtf: :eek2:  I don't wanna know...
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline Sheepy

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Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Welly, furry muff Stryke, but if paleo-SETI is as flawed as you say it is then it's no worse off than the major religions, and frankly I'm happier believing in the grey dudes than in the beardy dude - at least they don't demand that I spend sunday mornings freezing my arse off singing about how great they are, and as far as I know, nobody's ever started a war because their neighbours believed in different aliens :)



Man, that was a long sentance


My god that had me in stiches ..... must ... stop laughing ....
Kiss my Fluffy White Ass!

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Hmph. Don't get me STARTED on religion. Steal all of the ideas the Greeks ever had, make a vengeful asshole of a God, sweeten with a handful of aside statements about love and brotherhood. Use as an excuse to kill millions. Repeat.:rolleyes:

 

Offline diamondgeezer

Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
...furry muff


Local expression. Furry muff = fair enough, excrement = excellent, etc. That's student living for ya.



Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Hmph. Don't get me STARTED on religion. Steal all of the ideas the Greeks ever had, make a vengeful asshole of a God, sweeten with a handful of aside statements about love and brotherhood. Use as an excuse to kill millions. Repeat.:rolleyes:



[Morpheus] I know exactly what you mean [/Morpheus]

You just summed what I hate about religion. Have a cookie.

 

Offline mikhael

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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
How come pyramids in South America, Africa and Asia are aligned with the same stars?


Stryke got most of the rest, but I'll address this one particularly.

1) Pyramids in Egypt are aligned to the compass points. The pyramids clustered around Kufu''s (the Great) Pyramid are arranged in the same pattern as Orion's belt. Egyptian pyramids show a very clear trial-and-error history. The earliest known structures are simple rectilinear mounds. Later, there were stepped or layered pyramids, followed by an attempt at a very steep smooth pyramid. That one, however, did not have a good enough foundation to support the weight, so the sides were recalculated and built to a different angle (hence the name  the 'bent pyramid'). Finally, during the same period as the first layered pyramid and the bent pyramid, the first "proper" pyramid was built. None of these first pyramids were aligned with anything. I

2) Meso-american pyramids, particularly those of Incan, Mayan and Aztec origin tend to be aligned for the solstices and equinoxes. They are usually found over the site of an undergournd spring or other source of water.  Also, many are set so that their tips line up with the summits of nearby mountains.

3) Chinese pyramids are not known to be aligned with anything, and have little in common with either meso-american or Egyptian pyramids.

When I was a child, I had wooden blocks. I discovered early on that balancing tall towers of blocks was difficult. However, if I used a broad base, and made smaller and smaller layers as I got higher, I discovered that I could build shorter, but more stable stacks. I'm no genius, and no space aliens visited me, but I worked out the basic principles of pyramid building on my own. Now, lets say the ancient egyptians didn't have blocks. They DID have hourglasses filled with sand.  Falling sand in an hourglass demonstrates the creation of a pyramid easily.

And whilst we're talking about pyramids, how come no one ever remembers Babylonian and Mesopotamian ziggurats? They were, after all, startlingly similar to meso-american pyramids, though they weren't aligned with anything. Their tops were carved with constellations and star patterns. Lest anyone think that was mysterious, I should point out that Babylonians did have perfect functional necks and could see the night sky. ;)

There's no need to conjure up little green men to explain away feats of human ingenuity. To do so trivialises the accomplishments of our species.
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline mikhael

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Random things:

Genesis gets the story wrong, unless I'm misremembering my Bible: The Sun and stars came long before the Earth. I believe that Genesis has the earth created and THEN God saying "Let there be Light..."

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And what strikes me the most is the fact that, deep down, all the major religions are identical, with only minor cosmetic differences. We find the same stories all over the world - Noah, the Epic of Gilgamesh, and the creation of the world - identical stories, retold to suit the culture telling them but unmistakably the same.

Your statement about "all major religions" fails to handle anything but judeochristian (and by extension, Islamic) dogma. Buddhism, Hindu (in its various pre- and post-Vedic flavors), the Aboriginal Dreamtime, and most African and North and South American (previous to forced Catholic and Pentacostal conversions) religions. What most (but not all) of these religions DO have in common is a set of fundamental social strictures that layout how people should act toward each other in groups.
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