[deep_eyes]

It might sound similair to the node war scenerios and texts created but i was playing a game of Yu Gi Oh duel monsters with my little bro when i got the funny idea to create a FS2 duel game. it could be like the 2 players, with a deck of 40 say cards, is there "fleet". they organize it etc, and use attacks defenses and special abilities and traps etc just like the card game. Now this i think would be a good atribute if it was a real card game to the genre, but in terms of the internet comunity, i think it could be best played online forum wise. utilizing existing ships, etc, species, and only a few specialied ships to make what would be your deck or "fleet". of course the rules would be exceptional etc. i was wondering what the community would think...

[Levyathan]

Magic already works great, why bother coming up with a new one?

[Knight Templar]

I once actually tried to make cards like that with my friend once...


needless to say that never got passed "hey this sucks.. i'll play you pokemon!"

[diamondgeezer]

Yay Top Trumps!

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Levyathan
Magic already works great, why bother coming up with a new one?

Magic works great, so why bother with Pokemon, or ST:CCG, SW:CCG, or Jihad, or Wyvern, or.... well any of the others that got done.

Because they're not M:TG. M:TG doesn't have Orions or Shivans or wings of Ursas.

Besides, if you design it right, and make it original you can come up with something really groovy, like SimCity:CCG or Illuminati:NWO.

And if all that fails to explain it clearly, try this: creation is fun for its own sake. Games are fun. Creating games is doubly fun. That's the point.

[Levyathan]

Originally posted by mikhael
Magic works great, so why bother with Pokemon, or ST:CCG, SW:CCG, or Jihad, or Wyvern, or.... well any of the others that got done.

Good question, that one. I can't see it.

Originally posted by mikhael
Because they're not M:TG. M:TG doesn't have Orions or Shivans or wings of Ursas.

FreeSpace 2 does, and it works great too.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Levyathan
FreeSpace 2 does, and it works great too.

Creation for the fun of it. 'Nuff said.

M:TG worked fine but they made Pokemon anyway.

Wing Commander worked fine too, but they made Xwing/TIE-Fighter, Freespace, Starlancer, Tachyon, etc, too. If it weren't for people trying out new takes on old ideas, this modding forum would either not exist or would be dedicated to Elite v28.

[Levyathan]

Originally posted by mikhael
Creation for the fun of it. 'Nuff said.

I agree that creating stuff is fun, I do. But he asked for my opinion, and that's my opinion about this. I personally wouldn't be interested in a FreeSpace card game, simply because it'd hardly offer anything existing ones (Magic was just an example) don't.

Originally posted by mikhael
M:TG worked fine but they made Pokemon anyway.

Yes, to reach a wider variety of customers, making more profit. Pokemon is targeted at young children, while Magic is targeted at teenagers and older.

Originally posted by mikhael
Wing Commander worked fine too, but they made Xwing/TIE-Fighter, Freespace, Starlancer, Tachyon, etc, too. If it weren't for people trying out new takes on old ideas, this modding forum would either not exist or would be dedicated to Elite v28.

Now you're mixing things up. There's technological development involved in computer games, while the card game technology is hardly evolving nowadays, if at all. I just used FreeSpace 2 to show you it's better to keep it as a computer game, not try to make something different out of it.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by mikhael

Games are fun. Creating games is doubly fun. That's the point.

Hehe, I totally agree. That is why I am making an RPG (Not NW-like but Final fantasy 6 like) in the first place!

[Knight Templar]

Games are fun. Creating games is doubly fun. That's the point.

True as long as you have enough resources/skills to accomplish it.  Card games don't generally work out as you have to make the cards. But of course, if games were no fun to play or create... none of us would be here.  

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Levyathan

Now you're mixing things up. There's technological development involved in computer games, while the card game technology is hardly evolving nowadays, if at all. I just used FreeSpace 2 to show you it's better to keep it as a computer game, not try to make something different out of it.

You mean that Freespace was made because of technological advancement? We got Freespace because the Volition team said, "Hey! Lets make Wing Commander again! We've got better graphics cards now!" No. I seriously doubt it. It was probably more like, "You know, those space sims are kinda cool. Lets make one. See there's this war right, and that kinda gets put on hold because some seriously nasty things decide to hop in and join the fun..."

Space sims have never been about the bigger framebuffer or more textures.  They have never been about evolving or changing technology. They're about fun: gameplay and story line and challenge.

Let's drop the space sim angle and look at another kind of game: pen and paper RPGs. There's not been any "technological advances" in the RPG realm in... um.. well, ever. They involve paper and dice and pens and sometimes little miniatures and some books and imagination. That doesn't stop at least five new RPGs from being released each year. That doesn't stop people from buying and playing those games.

Let's look at an angle that combines these two: computer/console RPGs. Every Final Fantasy game is essentially the same. The underlying console changes, but that's about it. And yet, somehow, they still manage to sell. They win on presentation and game play and story, not on technological innovation.  In fact, this is the closest thing to the topic at hand: FF5 is different from FF4 in only one "real" way: the game mechanic is vastly different between 5's 'job' system and 4's character class system.  The game mechanic changed and the game was enhanced. Playing out fleet battles and ship to ship skirmishes with little cardboard rectangles, could likewise enhance the "game" (game, as in 'an interactive entertainment set in the Freespace universe').

[Shrike]

"Alright, my Orion attacks"

"Block it with my Nephilim and Cain"

"I can giant growth on it.  Heh heh"

"Bastard!  I take.......two damage"




I dunno if it would work.

[Tiara]

Giant growth on an Orion

*sees an Orion grow 10x larger then a Sath*

*sees Carls Sath whimper in a corner*

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Shrike
"Alright, my Orion attacks"

"Block it with my Nephilim and Cain"

"I can giant growth on it.  Heh heh"

"Bastard!  I take.......two damage"




I dunno if it would work.

Obviously trying to recreate M:tG with Freespace themed cards wouldn't work very well. Take a cue from Wizards of the Coast: they didn't try to make Jihad or Netrunner use M:tG style rules. If I were going to try to use any other game's rules for a freespace style card game, I'd look at something like Heavy Gear or perhaps the TNG CCG or SW CCG.

[Shrike]

Originally posted by mikhael
Obviously trying to recreate M:tG with Freespace themed cards wouldn't work very well. Take a cue from Wizards of the Coast: they didn't try to make Jihad or Netrunner use M:tG style rules. If I were going to try to use any other game's rules for a freespace style card game, I'd look at something like Heavy Gear or perhaps the TNG CCG or SW CCG.

Well obviously.  

It was meant as a joke, you know, ha ha?  Funny?

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Shrike
Well obviously.  

It was meant as a joke, you know, ha ha?  Funny?

Humor sense... atrophied... Not catching... obvious jokes...

[Levyathan]

Originally posted by mikhael
You mean that Freespace was made because of technological advancement? We got Freespace because the Volition team said, "Hey! Lets make Wing Commander again! We've got better graphics cards now!" No. I seriously doubt it. It was probably more like, "You know, those space sims are kinda cool. Lets make one. See there's this war right, and that kinda gets put on hold because some seriously nasty things decide to hop in and join the fun..."

I was hoping you'd bring that up. My answer is: story. We got FreeSpace because of the story. You can't keep replaying Wing Commander, you'll know all the story after a couple of times, making the game boring. With a new one you get a new story, new ships and new weapons. Just like an expansion of Magic, you get a new story, new cards and new extra rules - but the game is overall pretty much the same (the fact that you can play cards from different expansions in the same deck proves that). If you're talking about gameplay, I'd have to disagree again. There are no major differences between Wing Commander and FreeSpace, just minor details (like afterburners, maybe - I can't remember if Wing Commander got those), just like the extra rules they add in a new Magic expansion.

Originally posted by mikhael
Let's drop the space sim angle and look at another kind of game: pen and paper RPGs. There's not been any "technological advances" in the RPG realm in... um.. well, ever. They involve paper and dice and pens and sometimes little miniatures and some books and imagination. That doesn't stop at least five new RPGs from being released each year. That doesn't stop people from buying and playing those games.

Yep, it doesn't. And I honestly can't see why.

Originally posted by mikhael
Let's look at an angle that combines these two: computer/console RPGs. Every Final Fantasy game is essentially the same. The underlying console changes, but that's about it. And yet, somehow, they still manage to sell. They win on presentation and game play and story, not on technological innovation.  In fact, this is the closest thing to the topic at hand: FF5 is different from FF4 in only one "real" way: the game mechanic is vastly different between 5's 'job' system and 4's character class system.  The game mechanic changed and the game was enhanced.

Exactly. By changing the game mechanic the game was enhanced. After the maximum level of enhancement is reached, it will make no sense to change anything.

Originally posted by mikhael
Playing out fleet battles and ship to ship skirmishes with little cardboard rectangles, could likewise enhance the "game" (game, as in 'an interactive entertainment set in the Freespace universe').

Yep, it could. But the odds are seriously against it - that's what I'm trying to say since my first post.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Levyathan

I was hoping you'd bring that up. My answer is: story. We got FreeSpace because of the story. You can't keep replaying Wing Commander, you'll know all the story after a couple of times, making the game boring. With a new one you get a new story, new ships and new weapons. Just like an expansion of Magic, you get a new story, new cards and new extra rules - but the game is overall pretty much the same (the fact that you can play cards from different expansions in the same deck proves that). If you're talking about gameplay, I'd have to disagree again. There are no major differences between Wing Commander and FreeSpace, just minor details (like afterburners, maybe - I can't remember if Wing Commander got those), just like the extra rules they add in a new Magic expansion.

Um... that's what I just said.

Exactly. By changing the game mechanic the game was enhanced. After the maximum level of enhancement is reached, it will make no sense to change anything.

There is no 'maximum level of enhancement'. What you consider an enhancement, I consider crap. Witness Iwar2. I think that newtonian physics is the only good way to do it. Most of this board disagrees. Who's right? Which one is the "Maximum level of enhancement"? Your argument makes no sense.

Yep, it could. But the odds are seriously against it - that's what I'm trying to say since my first post.

The odds were against Thief3 ever being made--ah but it is. So why can't the guy give it a shot? Some games suck and some games don't AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHICH IS WHICH UNTIL YOU PLAY THEM. Give the guy a break.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Yay Top Trumps!

I'll beat your Lamborghini Diablo with my..... Nissan Sunny!

[deep_eyes]

its good to see all the constructive talk in here! makes me proud to know whyi  joined HLP. i actually started working on the class of cards, or in forum aspects, the classes in general charts.

then ima recreate EVERY ship in the standard FS2 genre, possibly including FS1. and if anyones interested if it goes well i make special mod ship cards as well.

ima have squadron cards etc, its gonna be nice.