[diamondgeezer]

Right... I have an Argo. I tell it to dock with an Iceni's right dock point, so it cruises up and over the Iceni and docks flawlessly with the left dockpoint. To this, I say

So, I tell my Argo to dock with the left dockpoint; logic dictates that this will cause it to dock with the right dock. The Argo makes a perfect approach and then, with couple of hundred metres to go, it executes a 180 degree turn and backs in to the Iceni. It slows to a halt with it's nose airlock just sticking out from the Iceni model. To this, I say


Okay, so what's the solution (apart from having the Argo dock on the Iceni's left side)? I understand that didn't program the paths correctly on the models, but where does that leave me? I can usually muddle my way through ModelView, but it doesn't do dockpoints or paths. PCS is... unspeakbly unstable and complicated, as I far as I can tell (no offence Kazan).

Is there anything I can do, or that someone else can do/has done?

[EDIT] The polt thickens - the idea is for the Argo to warp in a dock, so I tired this part fo the exercise. For now, the Argo is docking to the Iceni's left side, which works fine if the Argo is present when the mission starts.

However, if I have the Argo warp in closer than, say, 1200m to the Iceni, it exits subspace, slows to a halt, then dances and spins its way back to the start of the Iceni docking path. I attempt the scenario again with the Argo warping in 2 clicks from the Iceni, lined up with the dock point (as always). This time it closes to about the distance of the start of the Iceni's dock path, then spins a bit and jumps back a few tens of meters. After it's done ****ing about, it moves in for a smooth dock.

And it's no good anybody telling me to just use an Elysium instead, since a) it looks daft, marines using an Elysium when there's a much more advanced ship available, b) it dies about six seconds in to a fire-fight, c) I'm fed up having to pussyfoot around the problem and d) I've tried it, and it does the same bloody thing

OK people, I want a solution this time. This is, like, the third time I've asked about this problem on the VBB and here, and I'm getting fed up with it - surely, after years of modding experience, the community has come up with a simple fix for the great docking enigma? I vaguely remember someone redoing all the models with fixed dock paths - anyone got a link? Failing that, does somebody want to step-by-step me through editing the POFs concerned, or can someone do it on my behalf?


Right - now I'm going to sit here and sing "I'm Henry The Eighth I Am" until someone offers some practical advice

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Is there anything I can do, or that someone else can do/has done?

I've alwys found random attrocities useful for dealing with docking frustrations. I once had an Elysium dock with something (can't remember what now) but ti would head toward the ship all hunky dory till it was a few hundred meters away, then it calmyly turned around and went about 9 kms back the way it had come, before turning around again and docking nicely. I then went out and bit several small mammals, and I was OK again.

Oh yeah, and I have no idea how to fix your problem, except to say dock it with the left side unless it's really important to do otherwise.

[Rampage]

Originally posted by Black Wolf
I then went out and bit[ten] several small mammals, and I was OK again.
 

[StratComm]

1) For the Iceni bug, reverse the normals for the problematic dockpoint.  It has them going in the exact opposite direction from where they should be.  If the docking collar sticking out is flush with the hull, just reverse all the signs on that dock's normals.

2) Lining ships up with dock paths is virtually impossible, so don't.  Make the ships approach from an angle and they will generally find the dock path pretty well.  Try to make sure the Argo exits subspace while out of the dock path's radius.

[vyper]

Originally posted by StratComm
1) For the Iceni bug, reverse the normals for the problematic dockpoint.  It has them going in the exact opposite direction from where they should be.  If the docking collar sticking out is flush with the hull, just reverse all the signs on that dock's normals.

2) Lining ships up with dock paths is virtually impossible, so don't.  Make the ships approach from an angle and they will generally find the dock path pretty well.  Try to make sure the Argo exits subspace while out of the dock path's radius.

True.
True.

[RandomTiger]

I dont have a full understanding of the problem but it seems that the Fs2 code is partly to blame. If this is the case report the bug database http://fs2source.warpcore.org/bugzilla/index.cgi.

Cant promise any one will get onto it straight away but at least it will be documented. Theres not many bugs in there so someone is bound to get onto it eventually.

[StratComm]

It is a bug, yes, but it's in the AI navigation so there may not be much that can be done about it.  Still worth reporting, but you can pretty easily work around it.

[RandomTiger]

R1 said he was interested in having a go at AI stuff, not heard from him for a while put it could be a good learning exercise for him.

[diamondgeezer]

Originally posted by StratComm
1) For the Iceni bug, reverse the normals for the problematic dockpoint.  It has them going in the exact opposite direction from where they should be.  If the docking collar sticking out is flush with the hull, just reverse all the signs on that dock's normals.

Right, done that, and it... kinda works. Now, the Argo approaches correctly and ends up in the right position, but to get there it insists on sticking its nose several meters in to the Iceni model before reversing in to its final docking position. Thoughts?

Also, which version of PCS should I have? I've got 1.22, but it seems uber unstable. Keeps closing itself and gobbling all my system resources.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by diamondgeezer



Right, done that, and it... kinda works. Now, the Argo approaches correctly and ends up in the right position, but to get there it insists on sticking its nose several meters in to the Iceni model before reversing in to its final docking position. Thoughts?

Also, which version of PCS should I have? I've got 1.22, but it seems uber unstable. Keeps closing itself and gobbling all my system resources.

I had exactly the same problem when I was putting a dock point on my Frigate. I spent ages trying to fix the path but couldn`t. After about 20 minutes trying I swapped to another ship and suddenly it worked perfectly so obviously the problem is with the Argo. I don`t know how to cure it though. cause I couldn`t see the problem when I looked at the argo's path.

For PCS I downloaded The Alliance Productions FreeSpace 2 Kit which contains PCS 0.98.4 which strangely is more stable than the later versions.

[Sesquipedalian]

Originally posted by diamondgeezer

Right, done that, and it... kinda works. Now, the Argo approaches correctly and ends up in the right position, but to get there it insists on sticking its nose several meters in to the Iceni model before reversing in to its final docking position. Thoughts?

The last point of the docking path might be mispositioned.  Open the model up in PCS and find out the co-ordinates for the last point (it'll be the one with the smallest radius), and then open the model up in Modelview and make a new subsystem with those co-ordinates.  If it proves necessary to move the last point on the docking path, use Modelview to move your new susbsystem to a good looking spot, take the co-ords from that, and put them into PCS for the offending dockpath point.

[diamondgeezer]

Originally posted by karajorma
...which contains PCS 0.98.4...

No it doesn't

[karajorma]

Originally posted by diamondgeezer


No it doesn't

Yes it does. Did you actually download the file I told you to or did you just blindly click on the first file you saw with PCS in the title?

[CP5670]

Strangely, I have never had any problems with the docking AI for any ship. It is possible that there is some problem with the Argo but it is used for docking a number of times in the campaign missions, where it works fine.

[EdrickV]

The Iceni's docking port paths are totally screwed up, in addition to the bad normals on the right dock point. The left port path ends at X 369 when the dockpoints are at about X 122. (Open it in POFView and zoom out far enough and you can see the path. It never actually gets to the ship.) The right port path isn't straight, for no reason I can understand and the radius of each point is supposed to get smaller as you go towards the ship. The right path goes from about 700 to about 900 to 1000, which is totally wrong. The Argo's paths are not used at all if it is docking with the Iceni. If the Iceni was docking with the Argo, it would use the Argo's paths. (But that probably wouldn't look right.) (It's hierarchy in POFView doesn't look so good either.) Apparently nobody ever thought the Iceni would ever dock with anything.

Edit: Some of the turret paths are screwed up too, and one seems to be missing. Someone ought to make a fixed Iceni with working paths.

[StratComm]

Originally posted by karajorma
I had exactly the same problem when I was putting a dock point on my Frigate. I spent ages trying to fix the path but couldn`t. After about 20 minutes trying I swapped to another ship and suddenly it worked perfectly so obviously the problem is with the Argo. I don`t know how to cure it though. cause I couldn`t see the problem when I looked at the argo's path.

The problem is that the dock path is designed for a ship much smaller than the argo.  Try elongating the path, especially the last leg, and see if that helps.  The argo's center is used to pathing until the next to last point, at which time it moves to the dockpoint, so make the last path segment as long as an argo and it'll work just fine.

Originally posted by EdrickV
The Iceni's docking port paths are totally screwed up, in addition to the bad normals on the right dock point. The left port path ends at X 369 when the dockpoints are at about X 122. (Open it in POFView and zoom out far enough and you can see the path. It never actually gets to the ship.) The right port path isn't straight, for no reason I can understand and the radius of each point is supposed to get smaller as you go towards the ship. The right path goes from about 700 to about 900 to 1000, which is totally wrong. The Argo's paths are not used at all if it is docking with the Iceni. If the Iceni was docking with the Argo, it would use the Argo's paths. (But that probably wouldn't look right.) (It's hierarchy in POFView doesn't look so good either.) Apparently nobody ever thought the Iceni would ever dock with anything.

Edit: Some of the turret paths are screwed up too, and one seems to be missing. Someone ought to make a fixed Iceni with working paths.

Bah, turret paths aren't that important.  The hades is the one that really bugs me; have any of you actually looked at its paths?  The hanger is atrocious.

EDIT: upon realizing how bad the Iceni's paths actually are, I've decided to repair it's docks, also making it so that the argo docks in a more asthetic alignment (top of ships both same way).  Update soon.

[StratComm]

ok, I got a patch up on the Iceni...  Here you go...

http://www.geocities.com/cek_83/iceni_fix.html

[diamondgeezer]

Originally posted by karajorma
Yes it does.

I d/l the kit, like you said. It had PCS 1.1 in it. Therefore, one of us is telling porkie pies

Good effort Strat - I'm taking the new Iceni for a test run right now... standby...

[EDIT] By Jove, you've done it! Have a cookie with Smarties on it.

The Deimos has a similar problem IIRC, so I'll try applying your theory to that...

[StratComm]

On close inspection, the docks for the Iceni were really screwed.  The one that was off in space was not only in the wrong place, but it was backwards as well, thus the turning away from the Iceni when docking was initiated.  The other path was simply way too short.  As for docking, I actually know what each point does on the path and how to make a ship behave as I want it to when docking.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by diamondgeezer


I d/l the kit, like you said. It had PCS 1.1 in it. Therefore, one of us is telling porkie pies

Good effort Strat - I'm taking the new Iceni for a test run right now... standby...

[EDIT] By Jove, you've done it! Have a cookie with Smarties on it.

The Deimos has a similar problem IIRC, so I'll try applying your theory to that...

Hmmm. Kazan must have updated the link since I downloaded it cause I can`t think of anywhere else I could have gotten the other version from.