[Blue Lion]

And the political systems of other forms of government have jumped those hurdles and now represent the people with 100% accuracy! Come on Democracy, catch up with the rest of the world!

[CP5670]

Yes, you're quite right. And the rich own or have extensive influence over all the television networks, newspapers, mainstream political parties (which can pump out the most propaganda) and even what is 'taught' in the schools. Which has a significant effect how those votes are used. Then once legislators are elected they can be easily influenced through campaign contributions, old loyalties and their own selfish interests.

Exactly, but the whole concept of democracy is something of a farce anyway, so that does not really matter here; this is about the best you can get in a practical world. I'm not sure what the heck you are complaining about here.

Problem is, the views that the two parties express are so utterly random that I think the only real method in their choices is to take whatever side on an issue that is opposite to that taken by the other party, so to have something to fight about and thus gain popularity. There is really no consistency in their stances whatsoever. Also, for the most part, republicans don't know how to handle domestic issues and democrats don't know how to handle foreign issues, so I don't care much about which one of those two gets in power.

[Warlock]

Originally posted by Top Gun
Yes, you're quite right. And the rich own or have extensive influence over all the television networks, newspapers, mainstream political parties (which can pump out the most propaganda) and even what is 'taught' in the schools. Which has a significant effect how those votes are used. Then once legislators are elected they can be easily influenced through campaign contributions, old loyalties and their own selfish interests.

You're right every one with a voice should be able to braodcast informercials freely in order to sway the vote into their favor! Any citizen over the age 18 should be able to access television, newspapers, and anything they need to be heard!



Umm yea.

Tell me a country that doesn't have a cost to use or do anything ? By your reasoning ppl with money are the ultimate evil because they can afford to do what you and the common person can't ?

[Warlock]

Originally posted by CP5670


Exactly, but the whole concept of democracy is something of a farce anyway, so that does not really matter here; this is about the best you can get in a practical world. I'm not sure what the heck you are complaining about here.

Problem is, the views that the two parties express are so utterly random that I think the only real method in their choices is to take whatever side on an issue that is opposite to that taken by the other party, so to have something to fight about and thus gain popularity. There is really no consistency in their stances whatsoever. Also, for the most part, republicans don't know how to handle domestic issues and democrats don't know how to handle foreign issues, so I don't care much about which one of those two gets in power.

LOL So true so true  

[Bobboau]

tell me a better system that is less prone to coruption, and does a better job of suporting it's people and there needs\desires

[Warlock]

Originally posted by Bobboau
tell me a better system that is less prone to coruption, and does a better job of suporting it's people and there needs\desires

I agree with you,... EVERY system has it's flaws

[Top Gun]

Originally posted by Bobboau
tell me a better system that is less prone to coruption, and does a better job of suporting it's people and there needs\desires

Communism

[Warlock]

Originally posted by Top Gun


Communism

Yup that did wonders for the Good old USSR didn't it ?

[Top Gun]

What a predictable relpy. Go and read the communist manifesto and compare it to the USSR's philosophy after lenin died. That's the equivelant of denouncing 'democracy' on the grounds that it allowed Hitler to rise to power.

[Warlock]

Originally posted by Top Gun
What a predictable relpy. Go and read the communist manifesto and compare it to the USSR's philosophy after lenin died. That's the equivelant of denouncing 'democracy' on the grounds that it allowed Hitler to rise to power.

The funny part here is ...I'm not the one trying to prove a point

[Top Gun]

Actually it was Bobboau (besides me) that was trying to prove the point (albeit a different one). You just you just implied my point was wrong by giving irrelevant examples. Seems as the USSR bared none of the trademarks of a communist state (or even one in the making). Mind I'd much rather have lived in the USSR during Stalin's time that lived as a minority at the same point in time in the Southern states.

[Stryke 9]

Anyone who brings up Communism on a board frequented by Americans frankly gets what's coming to them.

[Styxx]

Originally posted by Top Gun
What a predictable relpy. Go and read the communist manifesto and compare it to the USSR's philosophy after lenin died. That's the equivelant of denouncing 'democracy' on the grounds that it allowed Hitler to rise to power.

Have you read the communist manifesto? And you agree with it?

[Alikchi]

I hate plurality vote.

[Top Gun]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
Anyone who brings up Communism on a board frequented by Americans frankly gets what's coming to them.

That's rather a sweeping statement unbecoming of you. Although it's probably true for the vast majority. I think it's rather a credit to the Americans that frequent here that they haven't resorted to their fellow countryman's normal way of dealing with this issue: flames, boos, chauvinism and profanity.

[Stryke 9]

I'm not talking about redneckery- I learned long ago that that's only the norm out where I live, and doesn't really carry over. What I mean is the complete lack of understanding of what Communism IS, and the assumption that it is a flawed system that has invariably failed. That is almost ubiquitous among Americans, thank you very much.

[Top Gun]

Except those in the Communist party

[Bobboau]

comunisim is everyone gets the same thing no mater what they do in life, so the philosipher poet who has also invented warp drive and computer chips as powerful as a 10 Thz AMD chip but are the size of a flu virus, gets the same resorces (food, electricity, maybe cash if that is still around) as the looser who does nothing but get high and nocks up his girlfrend.
Americans also have the notion that a strict police state that controles who you are and what you think is a necisary part of communisim, but it is only becase most comunistic regiems (that us supid Americans are awar of) hapen to be that way.
oddly most Europeans or just those who use democracy as a bad word tend to think that democracy requires capitolism, which is not the case, it is quite posable to have a comunistic economic system wich ellected leaders
ultimately I beleve there will a sort of hybird of capitolism and comunism becase taken straitly nether works perticularly well, but at the moment communism hasn't been showen to work any better than capitolism, and in fact between the two systems, when taken rigidly, capitolism has beaten comunism down flatly

[Top Gun]

Originally posted by Bobboau
comunisim is everyone gets the same thing no mater what they do in life, so the philosipher poet who has also invented warp drive and computer chips as powerful as a 10 Thz AMD chip but are the size of a flu virus, gets the same resorces (food, electricity, maybe cash if that is still around) as the looser who does nothing but get high and nocks up his girlfrend.

Strictly that is not true. The Scientist Poet and Philosopher will get as much as much as theguy who does manual labour on the grounds that both work equally hard and both jobs are mutally essential to society. That's the part of Communism that has the potential to be mortally offensive to Americans/American Values.

Originally posted by Bobboau
Oddly most Europeans or just those who use democracy as a bad word tend to think that democracy requires capitolism, which is not the case, it is quite posable to have a comunistic economic system

Of course. That's the way the Soviet Union Started out in its infancy. If you look at the policies of the Bolshevik Party at the time you will notice that it was way ahead of the rest of the world in democracy, answerability to the people, treatment of minorities, human rights,  women's rights and freedom of speech. The soldiers in the army even voted in their own officers.


Democracy is of course greek for 'The rule of the people'. I don't see how anyone could be against that apart from self servers.

[Stryke 9]

Uh... Cuba, anyone? One of the best medical establishments in the world, formerly about as poor as you cna get and under an oppressive military junta, now a free Communist state right off the borders of the Grand High Pig's domain, and a nice place to go, too.

But yeah- problem is, communism by its nature pretty much requires a proletarian revolt and a dictatorship at some point, the latter at the very least because it's the most efficient form of government. Prole rebellions only happen when a country's in very bad shape indeed, and in such a case it's all too easy for an opportunist to pass himself off as the real thing and sieze power. It's a rare man who's really willing to pass up personal gain to help his fellow-man, and they only rarely come to power. So, we get lots and lots of states that are nominally Communist, and functionally quasi-Stalinist (i.e. fascist and socialist).