[Top Gun]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
Uh... Cuba, anyone? One of the best medical establishments in the world, formerly about as poor as you cna get and under an oppressive military junta, now a free Communist state right off the borders of the Grand High Pig's domain, and a nice place to go, too.

Quite, it's a shining example to any other struggling country as to what can be achieved. What we must bear in mind though is that Cuba isn't the real thing. There is not a lot of political progression and a moderate amount of power abuse and corruption. Cuba turned towards communism via Guevara's guerilla foco theory instead of the political party method (which allows for the squabbles and debates required for a more democratic way of doing things and of course leaves it vulnerable to infiltration and internal degeneration on the flip side (as what happened in the USSR)). But because of its impoverished nature it  wasn't ideal for the progress of any kind of Socialism (not helped by an american blockade) so the present situation is by far the best possible outcome for it.

[Stryke 9]

Actually, helped quite a lot by the American blockade. The other Gulf/Carribbean nations can trade freely with the US, and none of them is exactly what I call "survivable". They make third-world look pretty damn good. If Cuba was opened to the US, I'd give it about a yer before it was impoverished, two years before it was an unofficial American colony- half tourist resort, half more or less concentration camp for the locals.

[Su-tehp]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
...If Cuba was opened to the US, I'd give it about a yer before it was impoverished, two years before it was an unofficial American colony- half tourist resort, half more or less concentration camp for the locals.

With all the political prisoners imprisoned by Castro, I thought Cuba already is a concentration camp for the locals.

But, apparently, Cuba has some nice beaches, so it's all good. Hell if I know. *shrugs*

[Stryke 9]

Uh-huh. Political prisoners. Name one.

I wouldn't take anything all the ex-Batista officials and plantation straw bosses who emigrated from Cuba to the US after the revolution say too seriously. They also accuse Castro of pretty much every international incident ever to have happened.

[CODEDOG ND]

Well, I guess I'm one of those morons that voted right-wing because I was fed by the political propaganda.

Go figure because the only thing I really watch on TV are debates.

I'm sorry I may be a vast minority on this board, but I just can't seem to agree with liberal politics.

[wEvil]

/me remembers the "landslide" labour victory where only 20% voted at all...

/me realises what a mess democracy in general is.

/me goes back to plutonium reduction

[Shrike]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
Uh... Cuba, anyone? One of the best medical establishments in the world, formerly about as poor as you cna get and under an oppressive military junta, now a free Communist state right off the borders of the Grand High Pig's domain, and a nice place to go, too.

So if Cuba is so nice, how come people there still try to get out and go to the US?

[wEvil]

never underestimate the power of the glowing square box known as television or its application as a propaganda tool.

[Stryke 9]

Shrike: So if Mexico is a Democratic state with a second-world economy, how come we have to build a giant ****ing Berlin Wall all along the Texan border lined with machine-gun-toting guards and backed up by even more heavily armed farmers to keep all the immigrants out?

No matter how much better Cuba has it than its neighbors, it's still a pretty poor country. We get plenty of immigrants from Haiti, too, and they've got to come a good bit farther under much worse conditions for lower odds of actually making it and being able to stay.

[LtNarol]

most forms of government look good on paper... and i quote from a friend "Theory and practice are one and the same in theory, in practice they are not"

Democracy has its flaws in that those who control money control the media, those who control the media control elections and in essence control the government.  Thats the obvious, but by the same token, you're free to do as your heart desires in most cases; you're free to start a business and run it your way.  I'll take democracy over communism any day.

[Stryke 9]

Uh... as was explained earlier, they're not incompatible in the slightest. And as I keep telling you people, and am about to bash heads over, A REPUBLIC IS NOT A DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACIES ARE NOT CENTERED AROUND ELECTIONS, THEY ARE CENTERED AROUND VOTING. In fact, a true democracy would be the closest thing TO a power-distribution version of communism. Now explain how you can't divide both money and power equally among the people.

[Kamikaze]

Originally posted by LtNarol
I'll take democracy over communism any day.

I take it you mean capitalism.. in which case business isn't quite so free...

Try touching the energy market (patent some uber-energy source or research something that'll outmode oil) and you'll find that a lot of stuff is in the way (i.e. rockfeller)

[CP5670]

Wait, how did communism get into the picture here? That is an economic system, and we were talking about politics here. I am no proponent of freedom, capitalism, and whatever else, but I do think that a pseudo-freedom is necessary in today's cultural era to hold together a society for long periods of time.

[Blue Lion]

Fine, I'll take capitalism over communism any day.

[wEvil]

Originally posted by Blue Lion
Fine, I'll take capitalism over communism any day.

i'd take a happy medium....

[Kamikaze]

Originally posted by CP5670
Wait, how did communism get into the picture here? That is an economic system, and we were talking about politics here. I am no proponent of freedom, capitalism, and whatever else, but I do think that a pseudo-freedom is necessary in today's cultural era to hold together a society for long periods of time.

Well somehow it got from republicans and democrats to democracy and it's relation to communism, despite democracy being political/governmental and communism being economical......

[Ace]

No where within the United States consitution is an economic system mentioned. The attachment of Republic-Capitalism and Dictatorship-Communisim is one which has evolved from the histories of the said nations.

I personally believe that we should have a True Democracy. I also believe that a person should only be taxed for the services they use. A government is a social contract, and what we have in the world today are hardly bodies operating in the best interests of the people.

Anyways, my point is that the structure of the United States would allow for radical alterations of government in the best interests of the people if carried out over a long (multi-generational) period of time.

Overall the old saying "War is too important for the generals." can be changed to: "Freedom is too important for a government."

Hardly an anarchist here, but something radically different can be created within the current framework. Something that takes advantage of inherient greed while also maintaining balance of power between individuals.

[Kellan]

Su-tehp, it's not gonna be a long two years.

It's gonna be a long six years.

And after that, we'll have a generation of right-wing Supreme Court judgements to live with. Joy of joys.

[Bobboau]

oh, don't worry they won't last too long, Al Qada will set off a nuke from sadam long before then
all the politisans will die horably

[Top Gun]

Saddam == Facist/Chauvinistic/imperialistic
Al Quaeda == Theocratic

They dislike each other enough to stand no chance of any unity at all.