[RandomTiger]

Hello, I've just discovered a bug I was chasing isnt actually a DX8 bug but a fs2_open bug:

In full nebula missions the ship trails dont render. Now this was introduced some time before the DX8 branch was started (pre  2002/09/24).

Could everyone (who was here at the point) have a think about what it could be.

[phreak]

ship trail mission flag?

[RandomTiger]

Im getting the funny feeling someone going to tell me this is a feature.

All I know is that I cant get a feature V programmed into the game to work for the original data files.

[WMCoolmon]

Posted about this some time back, ship trails are now controlled from the mission specs dialog. They must be explicitly enabled in any mission in order to be drawn (Done by checking the ship trails box in the Mission Specs dialog).
As for backwards compatibility, they are not automatically enabled in nebula missions because it gives more control to the mission designer. Existing missions can easily be fixed by checking the "ship trails" box, which literally takes seconds.

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Existing missions can easily be fixed by checking the "ship trails" box, which literally takes seconds.

I dont why I should have to go all the way through V's nebula missions and edit them all. It takes second to tick a box but not to do each file, open the vp's recompact them into VP and find them every time I have to reinstall FS2.

Surely the box in fred could have been ticked by default, now that really would have taken seconds.

But I guess this is where I seem to differ in opinion about being able to run everything in default.

[WMCoolmon]

Surely the box in fred could have been ticked by default, now that really would have taken seconds.

That could be done, but there are far fewer missions with nebulas than without; in the main FS2 campaign, especially.

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by WMCoolmon

That could be done, but there are far fewer missions with nebulas than without; in the main FS2 campaign, especially.

So was this to make it independant of whether it was in a full nebula mission or not? If so I see the problem.

Still it could default to on when its a nebula mission and default to off when not in both the game and fred. A bit more coding but worth it for back compatiblity (in my view anyway).

Can someone direct me to a list of features and additions in fs2_open.

[Inquisitor]

Worried that we screwed something else up?

Please don't.

Here's the paste of the things from 3.2, from a post by WMCoolmon. You've been around for everything else (mod support, scanning change, the table size discussion, etc.). This is from the release thread, found here:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,9376.0.html


Here's a list of changes that will likely impact the modder/player of FS2 (Coders have to look through the changelog, like me )
Bold text denotes a keyword that can be searched for to get more info on that change.

Added features, but have to be manually added w/o Fred2 binary:
-Toggleable ship trails
-Option to make it so the support ship repairs hull damage
To enable ship trails in a mission:
1) Open the mission file in a text editor
2) Add 32 to "+Flags:"

To have the support ship repair ships' hull:
1) Open the mission file in a text editor
2) Add 64 to "+Flags:"

Other added features:
-Basic support for ship glows
-Fighter beams
-Initial Beam tiling code added
-Geforce 4 fix (toggleable via the command line option -GF4FIX)
-Basic Linux support added
-CD checking disabled
-Wireframe target display added; toggleable with a mapped key
-Maximum subsystems upped from 128 to 200, maximum ship types to 198
-Maximum ships/ship limit bumped up to 400, maximum ship subojects to 2100
-Maximum shield icons is now 80

Bug fixes:
-Multiplayer success/failure music fixed
-Fixed secondary banks' inheriting of the reload time when a weapon runs out of ammo
-AI code revised for better primary weapon selection
-Subspace Missile code updated to work with Tag C

Command line options:
"-GF4FIX" Fixes a bug with Geforce 4 cards
"-almission (mission)" Autoloads a multiplayer mission, where (mission) is the mission filename without the filename extension
"-startgame" Goes to multiplayer mission select screen on startup

---
I love your work RT, but please READ these things, don't assume we've done something stupid or are hiding something. Each and every thing on there was discussed by the community and the dev team at the time.

I repeat, I love your work, we're better with you than without you, but please...

[WMCoolmon]

Originally posted by RandomTiger
Still it could default to on when its a nebula mission and default to off when not in both the game and fred. A bit more coding but worth it for back compatiblity (in my view anyway).

It would mean either another flag or a new field would have to be added, as well as code to check whether the fields are on or off and an extra field for "Override nebula trails", which makes it slightly more complex. Not by much, but every little field makes it seem just that much harder to make a mission.

[Bobboau]

how is it defined, if its an int 0 could be off 1 could be on -1 could be auto, -1 being default

[IceFire]

Shouldn't the tick box in FRED override the default FS2 settings in this case.  I'm with RandomTiger on this one.

[EdrickV]

The default settings for new features IMHO should always be set to emulate the original exe. Ship trails may be a minor feature, but it's a good example of how a feature with a non-original exe default setting can cause more then it's fair share of annoyance. (After all, if it had been set to emulate the original exe's behavior this thread wouldn't be here.)

And FYI Inquisitor, that 3.2 thread IIRC didn't mention that the ship trails would be off in nebula missions by default. I would have expected them to be on in nebula missions with a "force on" option in the 3.2 FRED2 for use in any mission.

[WMCoolmon]

Originally posted by Bobboau
how is it defined, if its an int 0 could be off 1 could be on -1 could be auto, -1 being default

It's a flag ATM (bitshift in an int), so it can only have values of 0 or 1.

[##UnknownPlayer##]

I'm with RandomTiger on this one as well - when we add new 'features' like this, they should not mess with the original missions in the game graphics/sound effect wise in ways like this.

Really, this should default to on for full nebula missions, off for space missions, unless explicitly set by the designer.

To save effort, you might just record a new setting in the mission files that determines whether the flag was explicitly set or not, and then revert to defaults otherwise.

[Inquisitor]

As a matter of fact, it did say they were off by default, unless I misread this?

To enable ship trails in a mission:
1) Open the mission file in a text editor
2) Add 32 to "+Flags:"


Was this a good idea? Maybe, maybe not. A group of people decided. We can just as easily undecide. Everything that we put in is/was put in for a reason, some of those reasons were before certain members of the group were here. Decisions were made, this has and will be a work in progress.

If you want to change it, we can change it, but if you want to play the original game, there are very few bug fixes we need to apply to play the original game uninterrupted. HLP has been about the modders, 90% of what we put in is for the modders.

Granted, this list is buried on the second page of the thread, I am wrapping up the site stuff, now that I have all the access, so, this is another thing we can put up there. I'd ask that everyone who is working on this, look at this list, and look at the CVS changelog. No active coder should EVER be surprised. If you're not getting committ emails, be proactive, go look at the changelog. Some of these changes are even commented in there

[RandomTiger]

This is why we need the knowledge base so badly, if that had all the info in one place with a good structure we would be in a much better situation.

I prefer asking questions in forums rather than looking through logs if its a simple question.

And you talk about the changelog, but doesnt that mean you have to know what file to look in?

You cant really be surprised that I thought it was a bug though.

On a sidenote I have notices that new files I've commited arent storing commit comments at the top, what did I do wrong?

[Inquisitor]

Lemme have a look.

Incidentally, I am gonna committ a readme, that should be included with each release, I will start with that text and add from the various threads here.

I will need your help in making sure it's accurate.

As for the question, I have no problem with the asking, it's hte how you asked. I'll talk to you on ICQ.

Everyone, please review the material as it's released, if you see something where we are violating some percieved design goal, ask about it.

Thanks.

[Bobboau]

ok how about if it doesn't see the string for the trails then it lets the nebula flag dictate weather there are trails

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Bobboau
ok how about if it doesn't see the string for the trails then it lets the nebula flag dictate weather there are trails

That's probably the best idea overall.

[Inquisitor]

Sounds fair to me, what say you all?