[Kamikaze]

HTML
because it's practical ... (not that I particularly like it)
xhtml is too rigid imo (so I don't like it)

Now if there was a powerful, simple language that could easily scuplt graphical web pages I'd be all over it... (no flash isn't it, it's not dynamic enough and is more of a movie/game resource)

[mikhael]

Originally posted by ZylonBane

XML is an interoperable database standard. Nothing to do with web pages.

I have to disagree with you on this one point. XML is not a database standard, so much as it is a framework for specifying data packaging and/or exchange methods. Unless you're going to define "marked up text files" as a "database standard", you are in error.

Prime example: some PDAs use XML marked up flat text to create quickly parseable datasets. They also use XML as a way to exchange data between client programs on the same or different PDAs.

[Stryke 9]

HTML, and whatever one-ups Flash, if anything.

I think those that were here pretty much in the beginning will stay a while- Java, HTML, and the like. After all, they're really all you need, they've outlasted most of the fad scripts already, and they're universal.

Plus, I understand them, at least to a degree. Which makes all the difference- DOWN WITH LANGUAGES I CAN'T READ!!!

[Lonestar]

Well Flash rules today due to its ease of use and great flexibility and its look. I beleive Flash, with ODBC's used with HTML and ASP will eventually rule the web.

However PHP is opened sourced unlike ASP. Therefore its flexibility alone should make it last a long time.

I have heard however flash is doing a complete makeover and the next few versions will reflect some changes. I honestly beleive flash will one day be a standard for Web design, used with ODBC DSN's. PHP is like the poor mans website and ASP is like the richmans website.

In conclusion Flash kicks all, animation, dynamic, has Java properties and DHTML properties to say the least.

Flash is the future my friends, either get on the boat or go home to PHP. Im surprised ASP didnt get more votes. Honestly has anyone ever programmed in ASP or VBScript? Its like writing Javascripts with a crutch. Can almost tell it in plain english what to do and it will understand. ASP deserves some credit therefore has my vote (yes i kow im supporting M$ with that vote, but seriously ASP/VBscript is so easy you cant not vote for it)

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by ZylonBane


XML is an interoperable database standard. Nothing to do with web pages. XHTML, which is a reformulation of HTML to XML syntax (and wasn't included in the poll), has already been declared by the W3C as the future preferred web markup language.
 

XML is eXtensible Markup Language, a subset of SGML (Standard Generalised Markup Language) and which can be further defined to be used as HMTL is.  Insofar as databases go, it's not really valid because it's not relational as such.. it does have advantages in that it doesn't require structured data types, and the tags can be used to give meaning, but it's really more useful as a 'gateway' to SQL functions in terms of DB use.

Thw whole point of XML is that it's not specifically a database standard - it was originally developed as a document standard, and it's been refined to be  more DB-like because the tags can give data a meaning.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Well Flash rules today due to its ease of use and great flexibility and its look. I beleive Flash, with ODBC's used with HTML and ASP will eventually rule the web.

However PHP is opened sourced unlike ASP. Therefore its flexibility alone should make it last a long time.

I have heard however flash is doing a complete makeover and the next few versions will reflect some changes. I honestly beleive flash will one day be a standard for Web design, used with ODBC DSN's. PHP is like the poor mans website and ASP is like the richmans website.

In conclusion Flash kicks all, animation, dynamic, has Java properties and DHTML properties to say the least.

Flash is the future my friends, either get on the boat or go home to PHP. Im surprised ASP didnt get more votes. Honestly has anyone ever programmed in ASP or VBScript? Its like writing Javascripts with a crutch. Can almost tell it in plain english what to do and it will understand. ASP deserves some credit therefore has my vote (yes i kow im supporting M$ with that vote, but seriously ASP/VBscript is so easy you cant not vote for it)

Amen!

*sniff, sniff* you bring tears to my eyes

[ZylonBane]

Originally posted by mikhael
I have to disagree with you on this one point. XML is not a database standard, so much as it is a framework for specifying data packaging and/or exchange methods.

Meh, you're just arguing semantics. The point is that it's a standard format for exchanging data, and also used as the native format for a lot of simple flat data (for example, Dreamweaver defines its entire user interface with XML files).

There's tons of pie-in-the-sky stuff about XML flying around, but in practical implementation so far, it just seems like CSV++.

And Flash whores need to get over themselves.

[an0n]

The only thing Flash is good for, is virusing people.

[Stealth]

and for making incredibly awesome webpages

[an0n]

Originally posted by Stealth
and for making incredibly awesome webpages

Say that 3 times while clicking your heels together and Marry Poppins will whisk you away over the 100 Acre Wood, past Never Never Land and off to the land of the Oompa Lumpas.

[Stealth]

another feeble attempt at increasing his post count?

i think so

j/k

EDIT:  but seriously... give me one page that's WELL done in all and everything BUT Flash, and i'll give you a flash page that has it beat... (design wise)

[an0n]

www.yahoo.com

[Stealth]

vadar had (has) the same problem as you apparently...

there's two different pages... there's pages that are pushing for:

DESIGN

and pages that want to display

CONTENT

for instance, pages that want to give information don't require fancy interfaces... look at www.ebay.com , www.yahoo.com , and many business sites that want to give as much information as possible.
Vadar used the example of the macromedia site even... they have virtually no Flash content on them, but that's because they're trying to give information, not "eye candy"

Then, on the other side of the spectrum, you have pages that have information, but they want to present it in an appealing way... for instance:  www.xeofreestyle.com , www.flash-db.net , www.flashchallenge.com and i could go on and on and on...

there's a difference in sites as you can see... it would be pointless for yahoo.com to have flash content on their site other than for advertising, because they want a page to load as fast as possible, and their site isn't meant to have a great appealing aspect.

[an0n]

www.ap3d.com

[Stealth]

not bad... but that sites's pushing for design, not content

i never said there were NO good sites that didn't use Flash, i'm just saying that the reason a lot of sites don't use Flash is it's pointless when you're not going for eye candy

EDIT:  compare that site to any of the three or four i've mentioned in my previous post... see if you can tell which is more appealing.

EDIT2:  just a few more sites (done in Flash) that you can compare to the non-Flash one you advertized :


http://www.2advanced.com/
http://www.moock.org/asdg/home.html
http://www.laserlines.com/enhanced.html
http://www.differentdays.com/main.html
http://www.cicolini.com/
http://www.loqueves.com/
http://www.axis360.com/
http://www.bluprint.tv/
http://www.iconologic.com/ff2002/neocon/
http://www.airbagconcept.com.ar/
http://www.xeofreestyle.com/2000 (old site)
http://www.xeofreestyle.com (new site)
http://www.flash-db.net
http://www.flashchallenge.com

i can go on and on and on

[an0n]

Fine. http://www.vbulletin.org

[Stealth]

compare that to any of the above sites i've mentioned...

of course i'm not saying that there's not good non-Flash sites, i'm just saying that the best Flash sites vs. the best non-Flash sites are 0wned by the Flash sites

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Lonestar Im surprised ASP didnt get more votes. Honestly has anyone ever programmed in ASP or VBScript? Its like writing Javascripts with a crutch. Can almost tell it in plain english what to do and it will understand. ASP deserves some credit therefore has my vote (yes i kow im supporting M$ with that vote, but seriously ASP/VBscript is so easy you cant not vote for it)

You misunderstand ASP. ASP is a framework for embedding scripting in a webpage, not the scripting language you use. You supply the scripting language and the parser (microsoft does supply VBScript and Javascript parsers). You can use REXX, Perlscript, PythonScript, Java (which would be silly but its possible), LISP, OCaML, Ruby, and about a thousand  other things.

ASP provides a common set of interfaces to the server and its services, as well as some web oriented objects. it also provides a very easy framework for extending the builtin interfaces or adding entirely new ones. That's one thing that ASP has over PHP.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by ZylonBane Meh, you're just arguing semantics.  

ZylonBane: "This is an apple!"
Mikhael: "No, that spherical fruit is an orange."
ZylonBane: "You're just arguing semantics."

Sorry, when you declare XML to be something, and someone says you're wrong, its something else, that's not semantics. That's correcting your error.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by mikhael


You misunderstand ASP. ASP is a framework for embedding scripting in a webpage, not the scripting language you use. You supply the scripting language and the parser (microsoft does supply VBScript and Javascript parsers). You can use REXX, Perlscript, PythonScript, Java (which would be silly but its possible), LISP, OCaML, Ruby, and about a thousand  other things.

ASP provides a common set of interfaces to the server and its services, as well as some web oriented objects. it also provides a very easy framework for extending the builtin interfaces or adding entirely new ones. That's one thing that ASP has over PHP.

Thanks for the info, i dont contend to know all about asp or VBscript. im a designer more then a programmer. Ive only recently learned VBscript and im surprised at the ease of its use.

As for Flash vs non-flash its like comparing apples and oranges.

I can take any Flash design you have, and make a site that will look almost exactly like it, which will animate like it and work like it in everyway.

Only difference you will see is in the actual animation itself. Flash is at heart an animator more then a site development tool. So you could make a flash site in HTML/DHTML/Any scripting language for DB's and it will work the same way as the flash site.

So for animations and funky looks Flash is the way to go. I dont care what anyone says, if your going to make animations flash makes it better everytime. I dont know how many GIF's ive converted to flash to reduce its size and make it look nicer.

Flash is the best animator tool for websites around today nothing even comes close to it. If your a true designer though, you know deep down every programming language, tool and database has its place, its up and downs. Dont knock what is brought to us, but also give kudos to those that have changed the face of design today (Flash). To deny the fact flash has changed the appearance of the web is like denying HLP exists. It has, continues to, and in the future will always be a web enhancer. Do you remember the first flash design you saw? I do, my jaw dropped, and i remember thinking, this is the future of design.