[Shrike]

http://www.microsoft.com/games/freelancer/

Still pretty thin on more of the background info, but they've started to get the universe section up.

Now, it'd be a nice surprise if it shipped with joystick support as well as mouse/keyboard.

[Stealth]

that site's been up for a while hasnt' it?

[Unknown Target]

Bah, Freelancer blows, don't touch me .
Seriously, not being able to use a ****in' JOYSTICK in a SPACE-COMBAT-GAME?!!??!

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Unknown Target
Bah, Freelancer blows, don't touch me .
Seriously, not being able to use a ****in' JOYSTICK in a SPACE-COMBAT-GAME?!!??!

Preach it, brother.

If its got stick support I'll buy it, in a heartbeat. Without it, and I'll do my best to convince people not to shell out their cash. I hope it has stick support, because screens like this do not give me hope:


BTW: that site's been there for a long time, Shrike. This, however, is a complete redesign of that site.

[heretic]

what a shame though- freelancer's been delayed, what, a year now?

[Redfang]

I haven't got a joystick anyway, and I don't plan on getting one.
 
Hope they'll do good controls for mouse&keyboard then.

[Nico]

Originally posted by mikhael

Without it, and I'll do my best to convince people not to shell out their cash.  

bah, I used to be sceptical, but I eventually decided  not to judge the controls before trying them out by myself first.

[Unknown Target]

Aquanox works well with it, but that has super-fast gameplay.
Something tells me this doesn't...

[mikhael]

Originally posted by venom2506


bah, I used to be sceptical, but I eventually decided  not to judge the controls before trying them out by myself first.

You can hammer nails with the end of a screwdriver, but its not a good way to do it.

Really now, can you describe a possible way that you can arrange ship controls using a MOUSE that will not suck, Venom? I'm not asking much. I'll listen. I'll even try the demo. Unless its absolutely revolutionary and exactly perfect, I'll not give up a joystick.

I'm a born skeptic. It took a lot of convincing to get me to abandon a pure keyboard control scheme for DOOM and Quake and move to mouse/keyboard. Its going to take me just as much convincing to get me to think of a MOUSE as bit of flight controls.

Wheels are made from driving games, sticks are made from piloting games, pads are made for consoles and arcade games and the mouse was made for flying windows and selecting text.

[Levyathan]

I've managed to efficiently use Shock 1's controls. After that, anything's possible.

[JC Denton]

Originally posted by heretic
what a shame though- freelancer's been delayed, what, a year now?

Freelancer - The Daikatana of the 21st century...

And I agree that there's not any sense in them not including joystick support.  Apparently, it's going to be given a similar treatment as Earth & Beyond (shudders), removing the joystick element to "simplify the flight model" my ass, I think it's harder to fly without a stick.  Not anywhere near as intuitive.

Or is this just to keep the fat bureaucrats (read:  Sen. Lieberman & his ilk) in Washington all nice 'n complacent?

Dammit, entertainment should not be political!!!

[CP5670]

It took a lot of convincing to get me to abandon a pure keyboard control scheme for DOOM and Quake and move to mouse/keyboard.

Actually, I still use this configuration today for FPS games, and it works great. (it's harder to aim but much easier to move/dodge )

Freelancer - The Daikatana of the 21st century...

That is sort of what I am beginning to think, seeing how much it has been delayed and the controversy that has started to develop...

[Stryke 9]

Originally posted by JC Denton


Freelancer - The Daikatana of the 21st century...

Oy. Wouldn't that suck. [winces]

Or is this just to keep the fat bureaucrats (read:  Sen. Lieberman & his ilk) in Washington all nice 'n complacent?

There's some kind of War On Joysticks I'm unaware of? Wouldn't that be COOL? I can't wait to hear Tipper stand up and give a speech on the evils of joysticks!

[Stealth]

Originally posted by mikhael

You can hammer nails with the end of a screwdriver, but its not a good way to do it.

Really now, can you describe a possible way that you can arrange ship controls using a MOUSE that will not suck, Venom? I'm not asking much. I'll listen. I'll even try the demo. Unless its absolutely revolutionary and exactly perfect, I'll not give up a joystick.

I'm a born skeptic. It took a lot of convincing to get me to abandon a pure keyboard control scheme for DOOM and Quake and move to mouse/keyboard. Its going to take me just as much convincing to get me to think of a MOUSE as bit of flight controls.

Wheels are made from driving games, sticks are made from piloting games, pads are made for consoles and arcade games and the mouse was made for flying windows and selecting text.

using a mouse would completely suck, i agree... but a KEYBOARD is still good!  99% of my "playing time" of Freespace 1, 2, Descent 1, 2, and 3, i use a keyboard... i just like it better... cause i hate using a joystick and keyboard when you can just use a keyboard (or vice-versa)...

see, in Descent 1 and even 2 to an extent it was easy to just use a joystick, cause all you did was fire primary, secondary, go forward, and backward (and steer, of course) ... but then i got a lot into the sliding left, right, and stuff, as i got more experienced.

that's why i switched for a while, (which ended up permanently) to keyboard... keyboard is the best... find me any joystick that has as many keys as the keyboard (so you can do multiple things at once, without switching from joystick to keyboard) and i'll take it

i dunno, i can see why people love the joystick, but now i actually fly better in FS1 with a keyboard than a joystick by far!

Mouse has always sucked, at all of the Descent/Freespace series... not a good enough response time, and when you adjust it... it goes up to when you SLIGHTLY move the mouse you turn completely around... it's pathetic

[mikhael]

Stick and throttle--and peddles if you have them. Its the One True Way.

Why use a keyboard? Its good for typing, but not as a controller. Why use a mouse? its good for pointing but not as a controller. Programmable HOTAS. That's the way to go. I mean, DAMN. Thrustmaster made HOTAS good, and Saitek made HOTAS cheap.

I'm all for using the mouse in Baldur's Gate. My tasks there are point and click and click and drag. That's GOOD.

In Driver, my task is to control a car. Why in hell would I try to control a car with a mouse or a keyboard? That's why there's wheels.

If I want to fly something, be it in atmosphere or in space (or even underwater, though I guess that's not flight), its gotta be stick and throttle.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by mikhael
Stick and throttle--and peddles if you have them. Its the One True Way.

Why use a keyboard? Its good for typing, but not as a controller. Why use a mouse? its good for pointing but not as a controller. Programmable HOTAS. That's the way to go. I mean, DAMN. Thrustmaster made HOTAS good, and Saitek made HOTAS cheap.

I'm all for using the mouse in Baldur's Gate. My tasks there are point and click and click and drag. That's GOOD.

In Driver, my task is to control a car. Why in hell would I try to control a car with a mouse or a keyboard? That's why there's wheels.

If I want to fly something, be it in atmosphere or in space (or even underwater, though I guess that's not flight), its gotta be stick and throttle.

well of course i use the mouse in SOME games...
Starcraft i don't think you can play without a mouse, lol, and if you did you'd suck at it, cause you couldn't point at stuff quick enough
Tribes is an awesome game with the mouse

I understand they make joysticks nowadays with like 15 programmable buttons and all, but i'm already USED to the keyboard... i don't have to think "wait... 'fire' is button 17 on this joystick"... i dunno, i just prefer the keyboard

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Stealth

I understand they make joysticks nowadays with like 15 programmable buttons and all, but i'm already USED to the keyboard... i don't have to think "wait... 'fire' is button 17 on this joystick"... i dunno, i just prefer the keyboard

Actually this speaks directly to the point of using a HOTAS setup in the first place. You know where all of your controls on your keyboard are. If they're not where you like them, you remap them. I'm betting that you probably reuse one basic scheme for all games that are similar, with only very game-specific variations.

When you're using a throttle and stick, you don't have to think about where anything is. You map your controls where you think they should be (like you do on the keyboard). As I pointed out in another thread, there's over 300 distinct programmable "button" events on my chosen stick.  I don't have to change the programming very much though:

trigger is always fire primary.
the big red thumb button is always fire secondary.
The coolie hat is always enemy targetting.

Once you set your controls and get everything configured, you don't think about them. You dont' have to wonder "where's that sniper zoom?". Sniper Zoom is under the left index finger. Comms? Right thumb, at the side.

Now, think about going from a set of good controls and being forced to use a MOUSE to play a game that by common sense should use a stick (or in your case, the keyboard). I think it pretty much sucks. The demo better rock the house and mouse control better make me forget my stick, because they'll not get any of my money otherwise.

Dogfighting with a mouse. PLEASE. What sense does that make?

[Kamikaze]

Originally posted by Stealth


well of course i use the mouse in SOME games...
Starcraft i don't think you can play without a mouse, lol, and if you did you'd suck at it, cause you couldn't point at stuff quick enough
Tribes is an awesome game with the mouse

I understand they make joysticks nowadays with like 15 programmable buttons and all, but i'm already USED to the keyboard... i don't have to think "wait... 'fire' is button 17 on this joystick"... i dunno, i just prefer the keyboard

Actually my flight control system has a mouse thing on it It's a saitek x45

[mikhael]

So do the thrustmaster sticks, but they're really just eight way hats.  Who needs a mouse? I just map it as a hat and have fun.

[Nico]

Originally posted by mikhael


You can hammer nails with the end of a screwdriver, but its not a good way to do it.

Really now, can you describe a possible way that you can arrange ship controls using a MOUSE that will not suck, Venom? I'm not asking much. I'll listen. I'll even try the demo. Unless its absolutely revolutionary and exactly perfect, I'll not give up a joystick.

I'm a born skeptic. It took a lot of convincing to get me to abandon a pure keyboard control scheme for DOOM and Quake and move to mouse/keyboard. Its going to take me just as much convincing to get me to think of a MOUSE as bit of flight controls.

Wheels are made from driving games, sticks are made from piloting games, pads are made for consoles and arcade games and the mouse was made for flying windows and selecting text.

dunno. I think it could be very cool, but for a realistic space sim with newtonian physics, I admit. You'd control the ship ala descent ( don't listen to stealth, I playe descent 1 and 2 ith the keyboard only and descent3 with the mouse+keyboard combo, there's no comparison, coz in quake or UT you can allow yourself not to aim that great, but in descent if you don't aim right, you're dead ). So I said you control ala descent, but obviously with more controls and stuff. but sure freelancer won't be like that, of course. but as you said it took you a long time before switching to mouse+keyboard ( me too, played a lot of doomlikes when I was younger, and tried the keboard+mouse combo only with thief I think ), but aren't you glad to have done so now? so I just say give the men their chance, and if they screw up, you can tear their guts from the seventh level of hell up to Mars if it pleases you.