Poll

Which one?

Maya!!
3 (13%)
3d studio Max!
6 (26.1%)
Lightwave!
12 (52.2%)
Blender owns j00
2 (8.7%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Voting closed: December 14, 2002, 08:22:24 pm

Author Topic: How good is Maya?  (Read 6734 times)

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Offline Hudzy

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Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Um, dude. you already CAN download Maya Personal Learning Edition.


Stupid question: How good is that compared to the expensive one? Does it do the same stuff or just the common stuff or what.

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Likely, it's like every other "educational version" in that it's a bit stripped down, and you can't save your renders (or just can't distribute them, or your models).


For the money, Truespace is terrible. I can name half a dozen programs that are better, and cheaper, just off the top of my head. What you can do in TS is extremely limited.



Oh, and the LightWave demo- you can get the warez (demo)version online, and (if warez is a bad deal to you) just not use the activated program included. Since, without two altered versions included separately from the main package, it's identical to the free CD version, I don't see it being considered immoral, or even really illegal.

 

Offline Sandwich

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Rhino for Modeler. 'Nuff said. :D
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline LtNarol

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Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Rhino for Modeler. 'Nuff said. :D
I end up with massive numbers of gaps and holes when I use Rhino... what am I doing wrong?

 

Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by LtNarol
I end up with massive numbers of gaps and holes when I use Rhino... what am I doing wrong?


Depends on what you are doing, period. :doubt:
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Deepblue

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Hmmm lightwave is ahead by a fair margin. :doubt:
But how easy is it to use.
And it is more costly then the FREE Maya learning addition. (you can save files and stuff, mostly you just cant sell anything you made in it.)
And Mikhael I got ICQ so if you want to beam Maya over my number is: 177811009
And one more thing is there a 3ds max trial?

 

Offline Darkage

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I use Lightwave7.5 and it rocks, no stupid icons so that makes it easyer to navigate in it then MAX imo. Easy to learn, i use Layout the most ( the rendering program ) and the tools use text so easy to remember what tool to use for use like expressions IK settings, bones etc. Animating is very easy 2/3 clicks and you have your object moving from A to B.

But ofcourse its up to the user how a model or render looks.
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Returned from the dead.

 

Offline Deepblue

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Okay I think I have narrowed this down.
A: I am going to buy 3d Studio Max or Lightwave.
B: I am going to screw around with Maya and see what I can do.
Now. Which is it. Lightwave or 3ds Max?

 

Offline Nico

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Quote
Originally posted by Darkage
I use Lightwave7.5 and it rocks, no stupid icons so that makes it easyer to navigate in it then MAX imo. Easy to learn, i use Layout the most ( the rendering program ) and the tools use text so easy to remember what tool to use for use like expressions IK settings, bones etc. Animating is very easy 2/3 clicks and you have your object moving from A to B.

But ofcourse its up to the user how a model or render looks.


you should try max again some day. there's no more stupid icons than LW, no stupid layer (tho if you like stupid layers, there's layers in max5, but unlike LW i yuo don't like them you're not obliged to -stupid lightwave path extrusions :-/ ), you can render in orthographic views ( :ick ) you have character studio ( LW, easy to animate? mwarf!!! ), reactor now comes along for free ( simulate all kind of physic effects like clothes in the wind, stuff like that ), the modeler and renderer are in the same prog, no need to open a new prog just to make a render, LightWave UV mapping sounds loosy to the most even listening to killmenow who is a LW maniac while max UV mappings are so easy to set.
There' also the video post that is lacking in LW and allow you some basic video editing for those who can't afford to pay yet another expensive program like premiere or after effect.
Anyway, I'm not gonna lie, there's things in LW I'm envious of, like the hypervoxel which sounds much more easy to use than the dozen of particle emiters in max which could all be brought back together in one nice emitter.
Here's my insight on the subject.
SCREW CANON!

 

Offline mikhael

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Once again, I completely disagree with Venom. ;)

Max DOES have about a billion stupid icons (like Truespace), which makes it hard to find anything.

Layers are excellent. They provide a clear delineation between objects and they let you isolate geometry from control data. Abstraction is always a good thing.

Rendering is about setting up cameras. If you're too lazy to set up orthographic cameras ONCE and save it as a scene, you're too lazy to live. ;)

Character Studio is for, you know, characters. Its not terribly useful for animating leaves, Mjolnirs, planetary systems, business presentations, ship battles, bicycle wheels, machinery, doors, joysticks, books, chairs and just about anything but characters. Animation is much more than just characters.

Can't say anyting about physical simulation. I honestly don't know much about it.

Seperating rendering and modelling into two different programs is a very intelligent move. Modeller focuses on--check it out--modelling. It provides you with a focused toolset. Layout provides you with animation tools, etc. You don't have to load a bloated executable into memory that includes functionality that you're not going to use when you decide you want to work on a mesh. When its time to animate, you don't have to have the thousands of modelling tools loaded. If you want to, though, you can load both, and the Lightwave Hub keeps things synchronised between the two. Make a change to a model in Modeller, and the changes appear instantly in Layout. Modify surface data in Layout and the colors change in Modeller.

LW Uvs are pretty simple. Hit "Make UVs" and *BAM* instant UV space. Want to segment your UVs? Select the Polys you want to be in the UV space and create a new map. What's complex or "loosy" about that?

LW has no video post stuff except video effects. You cannot, say, switch cameras or chain animations together. Arguably, however, this is the sort of thing best done by a dedicated video post program and not by your 3d modeller/renderer.
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline Ulundel

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Max is a bit easier I think...

Yes, you might say that it has stupid icons but thay are grouped and I don't see any problem finding them.

In LW, the left side of the screen is filled with dozens of buttons with no images and it's hell to find the right one.

Besides, max seems to have more features.

OK, would that help...





but this is just my opinion....

 

Offline mikhael

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Quote
Originally posted by Ten of Twelve

In LW, the left side of the screen is filled with dozens of buttons with no images and it's hell to find the right one.

Reading Is Fundamental. What do they teach you kids in school these days?

Max seems to have more features... perhaps. Of course, it packs all the features of Modeller and Layout into one bloated package.
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline Nico

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Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Once again, I completely disagree with Venom. ;)

for a change ;)

Quote
Max DOES have about a billion stupid icons (like Truespace), which makes it hard to find anything.

look at ten of twelve pic of Max UI. remove the create bar ( objects, shapes, compound etc ) coz it's useless. don't use big buttons coz they're... well, big ( can have the same very small ones ). you're left with only the basic commands on the top ( same as LW, but on bottom, and an icon and not a text, big deal ). Ok, that's still too much? hit crtl X. NO ICON LEFT AT ALL. right click in the viewport, a roll out tab appears under your mouse, modif tab. maj+ right click, create tab. etc etc -> can do everything W/O a single icon. Make an UI with less icons than no icon, if you can :p

Quote
Layers are excellent. They provide a clear delineation between objects and they let you isolate geometry from control data. Abstraction is always a good thing.;)

well, if you like them, max5 has them, no argument there.

Quote
Rendering is about setting up cameras. If you're too lazy to set up orthographic cameras ONCE and save it as a scene, you're too lazy to live. ;);)

if programmers can't allow you to render in a viewport that exists, I wonder who is lazy on this earth ;)

Quote
Character Studio is for, you know, characters. Its not terribly useful for animating leaves, Mjolnirs, planetary systems, business presentations, ship battles, bicycle wheels, machinery, doors, joysticks, books, chairs and just about anything but characters. Animation is much more than just characters.

her... should I reply to that :wtf: you can obviously do all that in max ( you hake IK, AK, morpher and all the crap just like any prog around ), so what kind of argument is that? What I say is that with max charceter animation is easy as hell, and it's not in LW

Quote
Can't say anyting about physical simulation. I honestly don't know much about it.

don't know about LW, so I just pointed out that max one was nice, no comparison was intended.

Quote
Seperating rendering and modelling into two different programs is a very intelligent move. Modeller focuses on--check it out--modelling. It provides you with a focused toolset. Layout provides you with animation tools, etc. You don't have to load a bloated executable into memory that includes functionality that you're not going to use when you decide you want to work on a mesh. When its time to animate, you don't have to have the thousands of modelling tools loaded. If you want to, though, you can load both, and the Lightwave Hub keeps things synchronised between the two. Make a change to a model in Modeller, and the changes appear instantly in Layout. Modify surface data in Layout and the colors change in Modeller.

I'll just reply that modeling is my job, and I'd hate having to switch progs to do a test render coz face it, modeling and rendering are more closely linked than my arm and my hand. And if they plan on bringing everything together in the next LW release, it's for a reason: it's just not practical, you loose time, you lose money. bad capitalist word, bad, bad!

Quote
LW Uvs are pretty simple. Hit "Make UVs" and *BAM* instant UV space. Want to segment your UVs? Select the Polys you want to be in the UV space and create a new map. What's complex or "loosy" about that?

KMN complaints were about choosing between planar, spherical, cylindrical, cubic, poly, wrapred, etc UVmappings, ease of modifying the gizmo UV to rotate, scale, mirror and tile the map, and things like that.[/quote]

Quote
LW has no video post stuff except video effects. You cannot, say, switch cameras or chain animations together. Arguably, however, this is the sort of thing best done by a dedicated video post program and not by your 3d modeller/renderer.

of course it's not necessary, but it's a plus, and for somebody like me, a studient or anybody who can't afford after paying so much for max, to pay yet another prog, it's definitively a welcome gift. being able to do fade ins and out, video incrustation and the like directly in the 3d software is really helpful.
SCREW CANON!

 

Offline Ulundel

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Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Reading Is Fundamental. What do they teach you kids in school these days?



:sigh:

what I'm trying to say is that with graphical buttons you don't have to search again and again through all those LW buttons.

Hell, I've tried to learn LW about three weeks and you know what I can do? - create, move and rotate objects. Pathetic, isn't it?

But it took me two weeks to make my first render with max - shadow maps, lens effects, all those sweet "reality" tweaks - everything.

 

Offline mikhael

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Quote
Originally posted by venom2506

...
 hit crtl X. NO ICON LEFT AT ALL. right click in the viewport, a roll out tab appears under your mouse, modif tab. maj+ right click, create tab. etc etc -> can do everything W/O a single icon. Make an UI with less icons than no icon, if you can :p

You can turn off the interface, but that's not what I mean. Its hard to find things in max because the icons are counterintuitive. Text labels work better, in this case.


Quote

...
if programmers can't allow you to render in a viewport that exists, I wonder who is lazy on this earth ;)

Viewports are not cameras. There is a distinct difference. I'd say that what should be there is a preset "isometric" layout, to keep the lazy people happy. It doesn't need to be in the binary though. That's just dumb.

Quote

...
I'll just reply that modeling is my job, and I'd hate having to switch progs to do a test render coz face it, modeling and rendering are more closely linked than my arm and my hand. And if they plan on bringing everything together in the next LW release, it's for a reason: it's just not practical, you loose time, you lose money. bad capitalist word, bad, bad!
...

I'd suggest you look at Lightwave again. You hit "f12" to switch between programs if you have to do test renders and stuff. Its that easy. You get the best of both worlds: you don't have to have rendering code bloating your modeller AND you can have instant access to the renderer when you need it. Who would have thought it? Convenience and Compactness at the same time. ;) If you're measuring lost money and lost time in 1-keystroke increments you're more anal than a federal tax auditor. ;)
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline Ulundel

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And mikhael...have you ever tried 3dmax?

 

Offline mikhael

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Quote
Originally posted by Ten of Twelve
And mikhael...have you ever tried 3dmax?


Yes. I own Max3.1. I don't know about any features in more recent versions, because I couldn't be bothered to pirate them.
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline Ulundel

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try max4. it 0wns

 

Offline Nico

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Quote
Originally posted by mikhael

You can turn off the interface, but that's not what I mean. Its hard to find things in max because the icons are counterintuitive. Text labels work better, in this case.

let the mouse over the icon, it'll say what it is. use the program for two days, you'll know what the icons are, and having a small 20*20 pixel icon cluters the UI much less than a button with a sentence writen on it. and as I said, with the right click you have those menus you love so much, with text and nothing else.



Quote
Viewports are not cameras. There is a distinct difference. I'd say that what should be there is a preset "isometric" layout, to keep the lazy people happy. It doesn't need to be in the binary though. That's just dumb.

I must say this is a very disapointing argument, coming from you. why making a box tool for those who can glue a few polys together, you would say? No, of course. If I need a perfect side view w/o perspective of my mesh, I render the side view!!! what is so lazy about it? what is so wrong that you prefer to set up a stupid camera and play with the POV so you have no perspective? what is dumb i your logic, there, sorry, I don't like to talk like that, but it's really what I think.  It's just like when Stryke9 criticizes max and LW coz they make modeling to easy ( yeah right ).


Quote
I'd suggest you look at Lightwave again. You hit "f12" to switch between programs if you have to do test renders and stuff. Its that easy. You get the best of both worlds: you don't have to have rendering code bloating your modeller AND you can have instant access to the renderer when you need it. Who would have thought it? Convenience and Compactness at the same time. ;) If you're measuring lost money and lost time in 1-keystroke increments you're more anal than a federal tax auditor. ;) [/B]

ok, I'll grant you this one, I didn't know you could switch easily between the two progs. but calling max a bloated prog is beyond the line, sorry. You're the ne to complain about LW having troubles calculating a triangulated mesh in the viewport. Seems Max code is optimized enough to allow both modelus within the same exe, and there's no need to find why they're separated in LW ( I know, that was a low blow :p ).
« Last Edit: December 16, 2002, 11:39:00 am by 83 »
SCREW CANON!

 

Offline mikhael

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Quote
Originally posted by Ten of Twelve
try max4. it 0wns


You going to give me your legal copy? I paid for my Max and Lightwave.
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]