[HotSnoJ]

I really liked it. What did you ppl think of it?


P.S. I'm suprised that the Democrats/liberals weren't laying dead on the floor.

[pyro-manic]

Didn't see it ( I'm a Brit).

From what I've seen on the news, looks like he just used it as a chance to whip up support to go and kick the crap out of the Iraqis.

If you ask me, the guy's an idiot. He can't even speak properly - "nukyerler" missiles, anyone?

On the topic of George "dubya" Bush, has anyone read "Stupid White Men", by Michael Moore? It's the funniest, and at the same time the scariest, book I've read for ages. 'S really good!:yes:

[Ryx]

Originally posted by pyro-manic
.
On the topic of George "dubya" Bush, has anyone read "Stupid White Men", by Michael Moore? It's the funniest, and at the same time the scariest, book I've read for ages. 'S really good!:yes:

Yeah, it's pretty funny. The conspiracy theory's a bit much, but still a fun read.

[Zeronet]

Originally posted by pyro-manic
Didn't see it ( I'm a Brit).

From what I've seen on the news, looks like he just used it as a chance to whip up support to go and kick the crap out of the Iraqis.
 

Yep, and they'll be a lot better off afterwards.

[wEvil]

yep, after we get all their oil and their ancient way of life has been asborbed/corrupted by western society..

I dont agree with the dictatorship but there are other things at stake here as well which people, it seems, are non-too-keen to draw attention to.

[Stryke 9]

I liked how he started running out of money after offering 400 billion for welfare ( ), and so each expenditure he promised decreased from then on.

And yeah- he really hasn't said anything new about why Iraq is a good target. Or provided any evidence of what he's already said- "because I think so" does not qualify as proof. It doesn't matter that everyone knows he has MDWs- if you're gonna instigate a war that could easily lead to the decimation of Israel and the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of civilians, never mind a chaotic, violent, bloody warlord anarchy created by a power vaccum after we ditch Iraq the same way we've ditched Afghanistan for the second time, you'd better have a ****ING good reason. And he doesn't.

[Stealth]

i was out having dinner, i recorded it though, i'll watch it when i get home today

[Zeronet]

Originally posted by wEvil
yep, after we get all their oil and their ancient way of life has been asborbed/corrupted by western society..

I dont agree with the dictatorship but there are other things at stake here as well which people, it seems, are non-too-keen to draw attention to.

The war would cost more than any gain from oil. There ancient way of life would not be destroyed , rather improved by being able to feed themselves and live in a rich country which would no longer have tough sanctions imposed.

The reason the US is protecting the oil, is so the new Iraqi government can use it to start rebuilding the country after years of dictatorship.

[wEvil]

Originally posted by Zeronet


The war would cost more than any gain from oil. There ancient way of life would not be destroyed , rather improved by being able to feed themselves and live in a rich country which would no longer have tough sanctions imposed.

The reason the US is protecting the oil, is so the new Iraqi government can use it to start rebuilding the country after years of dictatorship.

First off - its spelt "Their", not "There" in the context you're using.  

And I view the continuing expansion of western society a horrible thing that eventually fails to enrich the world culturally - quite the opposite, in fact.  If you want to stick your head up your bum and only view the short-term implications, that's your problem.

[Zeronet]

Originally posted by StrykeIX
I liked how he started running out of money after offering 400 billion for welfare ( ), and so each expenditure he promised decreased from then on.

And yeah- he really hasn't said anything new about why Iraq is a good target. Or provided any evidence of what he's already said- "because I think so" does not qualify as proof. It doesn't matter that everyone knows he has MDWs- if you're gonna instigate a war that could easily lead to the decimation of Israel and the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of civilians, never mind a chaotic, violent, bloody warlord anarchy created by a power vaccum after we ditch Iraq the same way we've ditched Afghanistan for the second time, you'd better have a ****ING good reason. And he doesn't.

Did you know, US troops are still defending Afganistan from the Taliban and that millions is being spent rebuilding that country. Without the help of the UK/US/Canada/Germany/France etc, that country would still be under the taliban and the hippies in the western world would be glad that they've prevented a war and stopped the evil goverment.

[Zeronet]

Originally posted by wEvil


First off - its spelt "Their", not "There" in the context you're using.  

And I view the continuing expansion of western society a horrible thing that eventually fails to enrich the world culturally - quite the opposite, in fact.  If you want to stick your head up your bum and only view the short-term implications, that's your problem.

Muppet(Most likey, by pointing out the minor error, you hoped to achieve a reaction of this sort, to further your argument, by trying to make me seem irrational and emotional). If your going to be so damn idiotic, as you bloody pick out the fact im typing this casually, with little regard for making it a PERFECT ESSAY, i,ve not got the time for your weak argument, its just silly, stupid and pedantic, your not trying to argue, your just being an annoying fool who is seeking to get the upper hand, by pointing out little mistakes, as if it makes you somehow better, the only thing you,ve achieved, it making me want to swear repeatedly, about the foolishness of pointing out gramatical mistakes, in a piece of CASUAL writing, this isnt a English forum, where we are all expected to use the proper terminology to express our viewpoints, giving proper spellings, as im typing, its a mistake i make on a number of ocassions, as i tend to type rather fast, in reference to your argument(which is irrelevant) which actually assumes that by attacking Iraq, somehow western society will spread into it, with no actual basis for this happening.

[CP5670]

I didn't see it as I was asleep at the time, but I don't think it really contained any new information. Pretty much just your usual propaganda, but I don't need to be convinced.

And I view the continuing expansion of western society a horrible thing that eventually fails to enrich the world culturally - quite the opposite, in fact.  If you want to stick your head up your bum and only view the short-term implications, that's your problem.

What exact aspects of "western society" do you not like? Now I am also a virulent opponent of some parts of the current culture but Iraq (and the entire world, for that matter) is already quite indoctrinated by the current western culture. Iraq is probably the most modern west-like nation in the Arab world and it does not differ from the west due to its culture by any means, but rather due to its politics. Besides, remember Trotsky's "continual revolution?" The same concept applies to a lot of things, including cultures, so if any one way of life is to flourish, the other "anicent ways of life" will be eliminated eventually, which has already happened long ago in this case.

[Top Gun]

CP: It's nice to see you're reading the works of someone that are well published online so I can respond. Remember what happened to Him and to the USSR, he was a fantastic writer (In a literary (it's a shame he never wrote novels) and factual sense) and tactician and some of the events were consequences of others he caould not have predicted (for example the rise of the social democrats in europe as opposed to the hard left). But unless proved otherwise, those theories (Permanent revolution) are to be believed with scepticism.

[CP5670]

That applies to any real-world theory out there though, even things like core physics laws. If you can establish a logical connection of what really makes the cause imply the effect (in this case this is pretty obvious and would quickly explain the facts so far; look at some of my old posts on this "cultural war" thing) and that there is a higher probability of it being true than false, then that's all that is needed for our purposes. However, it hardly matters in this case, since, aside from the political system, Iraq has quite a westernized culture already, especially in comparison to some of the other nearby nations.

[wEvil]

Well, its nice to see you managed that without a spelling mistake (@zero)

(@CP)
And its not so much commercialisation im against, although it is.

Just let me qualify that statement though:

Unfortunately with the expansion of large corporations there's a certain level of individuality that gets removed from everyday life.  Eastern nations (a sweeping generalisation, I know) tend to have very strong ways and beleifs, mostly, I agree, caused by the hardships encountered by every day life.

However, I beleive the day where you can go globe-trotting and simply get the same (lack of)atmosphere at every place one visits will be a very poor day for the world.  And unfortunately, like a bacteria carrying a virus, this is the thing that spreads.  I dont have a problem with the west, I dont have a problem with the East, I do have a problem with the soul-snuffing aura that comes with western culture though.

A military solution, or a violent solution makes us as bad as the terrorists you so desperately want to eradicate.  You're not attacking the root cause, you're just treating symptoms as they appear.  That is why i'm against military action.  Its just a highly visible and costly publicity stunt, in the long term it will accomplish nothing, or worse, destabilise the whole region further.  Obviously there has to be an ulterior motive for it, and it is just speculation it could be the oil they're after, but its a very probable speculation in my opinion.

[Falcon X]

Originally posted by pyro-manic
Didn't see it ( I'm a Brit).

If you ask me, the guy's an idiot. He can't even speak properly - "nukyerler" missiles, anyone?

I guess you like stupid people that are eloquent in office better?  I see it far more dangerous to have an eloquent politician in office (Clinton).  He can lie easier.  And in comparison he ain't that dumb chief.


One thing to add about oil...

I know everyone always says it's about oil, and you know what ?  You're right!  It's about oil for "old europe", Germany and France.  They are the ones with big oil treaties with Saddam, and if these embargos are lifted they profit.  I mean do they really care what happens to US citizens?  Nope.

And for all of you people still not understanding common international law understand this:  The U.S is not initiating the war.  Iraq is and has.  You know that little piece of paper he signed saying he will disarm and have the UN CONFIRM that?  Well he violated that in '98 when all Clinton did was wag the dog.  With that violation a state of war is already here.  Not to mention that little unanimous resolution that told Iraq to cooperate totally or else.... well he still isn't.  Even blix has said that he isn't and we sure as hell haven't been shown (destroyed or intact) where all his weapons have gone.

Tell me were any of you in support of attacking Kosovo/Bosnia and assisting them?  Then why aren't you for Iraq?  I mean Bosnia was not even a blip on the US's threat radar....  I just find it laughable that the US had to bail the Europeans out of that one too.  Look what happens when you scrape your army.  Face it you guys are becoming insignificant militarily.

Kinda sucks when you guys controlled the world and now control nothing.  All you have is the Security council... I wonder why Germany wants on it?  Face it, the "old europe" line is too true.  The world is changing and you guys hate it.

And just for all you UN lovers:

Would you please tell me one thing the UN has actually done well?  You're waiting for the great UN to take care of it, when really it has become ineffective.

Consider this... they created Israel and now they are doing NOTHING about it.  They don't handle things and the shrug responsibility.  

We didn't take out Saddam because we wanted to follow the UN charter... we expected the UN to handle things, well they sure screwed up.

Rwanda?  When did they say anything about that?  Never.  And don't ***** about the US not doing anything because we can't unless the EU and the UN says we can.  (or that's what's been said in the past.)  Maybe we should have done something, but the UN sure as hell did nothing.

Oh and one more thing... Lybia as the human rights chair?  Get a grip.

Now I apologize if I was a little to "harsh" for you guys, but hey you guys have had your fun bashing the US and now it's my turn.

[Falcon X]

Oh one more thing I hope you guys heard last night:

"Yet the course of this nation does not depend on the decisions of others."

[01010]

I hope we do go to war. Gives me chance to use this...

[wEvil]

Unfortunately the british govornment will do almost anything the US asks (tells?) it to.

I have no particular alleigance to this country, or any other to be honest.  They all fail miserably in the end....

[kasperl]

BTW, i read in my paper this morning that Iraq is now the boss (lost the right word in english), of the UN disarmnament committee. it's just because the leadership rotates alphabetacilly, and it's Saddams turn.

edit: just remind that i need learn to typ ok?