[OldMan]

I KNOW what I am speaking.. I am already doing something similar with medical images.. using vertex shaders to simulate corruption at tissues... and there the models were only references to a huge list of vertex... very little flexibility there.

 You cannot make BIG modifications.. but you can make that piece of hull look like with strange ilumination.. that would be the greatest effect when a flat polished surface is hit by a weapon.  Just add a noise.You would certainly notice that that place were damaged.

I didnt said it was easy... but is possible, and easier than changing the geometry data.  The problem would only be how to detect where to aply this (at wich section of vertex data set). The application would not be hard AFTER we had implemented T&L, since the drawning could be broken in two stages.. drawing the array then redrawing the pieces with modified shading.

[Fry_Day]

Firstly, I apologize for the outburst (I was reading the forum after a sequence of unfortunate affairs in real-life™ had unfolded, but still, that's no excuse), and I didn't get the idea behind what you are suggesting (which is definitely not geo-mod), but I really believe that damage could be better simulated using decals and pixel-shading, as the FS2 models have a low vertice/volume ratio, so per-vertex effects won't cut it, and besides, decals are already implemented.

[CP5670]

I suppose this is possible (but difficult and time-consuming), but even if the SCP guys got it to work properly, a lot of gameplay complications would arise from it. For example, what if this sort of thing happens to the center of the Colossus while it still has some health left? The ship would break into two sections while still being alive, which would obviously create huge problems for the game to handle. Another possibility is that a beam hit may well tear off some ship turrets and/or subsystems, and for some ships this would make it much easier to disarm/disable them.

[Sesquipedalian]

Originally posted by OldMan
I KNOW what I am speaking.. I am already doing something similar with medical images.. using vertex shaders to simulate corruption at tissues... and there the models were only references to a huge list of vertex... very little flexibility there.

 You cannot make BIG modifications.. but you can make that piece of hull look like with strange ilumination.. that would be the greatest effect when a flat polished surface is hit by a weapon.  Just add a noise.You would certainly notice that that place were damaged.

I didnt said it was easy... but is possible, and easier than changing the geometry data.  The problem would only be how to detect where to aply this (at wich section of vertex data set). The application would not be hard AFTER we had implemented T&L, since the drawning could be broken in two stages.. drawing the array then redrawing the pieces with modified shading.

Interesting!  I have very little (i.e. zero) knowledge of such things, but it sounds good.

[deep_eyes]

Blackwolf got a point on making CODE to acutally allow beams or solids in this matter to be broken down and blown out.

if you look at games like Half Life and Quake, there are for examples Brushes (the simplest shape units like boxes, triangles, cylinderes etc.) that make up the world you run around in, that are flagged using a mission editor such as Worldcraft were it makes the solids, breakable relevent to where the attack is coming from, and the material.

Since in HL, the only time the "bodies" for example carve in a similar way is when they are blown up. Every HL model has a subobject for these effects, such as the Damage MODEL that shows-up or in this case, spawns, once the ship is destroyed.

to add more subobjects to be blown off would render the game lagg extensivly due to the polygon limitations of each model. In HL its possible because its the entire world these polygons are made of, but its only the ones viewable by the gamer that break down visually, if any others break while ur not in view of it, it isnt drawn out, but the math/code made it happen (but not visually).

its possible but would render the game unplayable if u say had a Lucifer and a Orion shooting each other, the chunks would be huge...

unless they were just plates getting blown off...

[OldMan]

Originally posted by Fry_Day
Firstly, I apologize for the outburst (I was reading the forum after a sequence of unfortunate affairs in real-life™ had unfolded, but still, that's no excuse), and I didn't get the idea behind what you are suggesting (which is definitely not geo-mod), but I really believe that damage could be better simulated using decals and pixel-shading, as the FS2 models have a low vertice/volume ratio, so per-vertex effects won't cut it, and besides, decals are already implemented.

For sure pixel shading would be even better.. but would need much more thinking BEFORE we implement any T&L implementation (and slower in most hardware but r300 and NV30). The VS aproach would really have some problems with hits in planes of a ship made only of 2 triangles... but would be very nice in curved surfaces  like Vassudran ships. The advantage of shaders over decals it's the larger set of possibilities... strange damages and sometimes imprevísible results. The Decals would be even a good source of data for a pixel shader aproach.

About the outburst... no problem.. I know how it is... I am here exactly to forget such things.

[Edwin]

Originally posted by CP5670
I suppose this is possible (but difficult and time-consuming), but even if the SCP guys got it to work properly, a lot of gameplay complications would arise from it. For example, what if this sort of thing happens to the center of the Colossus while it still has some health left? The ship would break into two sections while still being alive, which would obviously create huge problems for the game to handle.

Easy fix for that, add a peice of code that has the ship get completely destroyed if a chunk larger than say, 30%, is sliced away.

Originally posted by CP5670
Another possibility is that a beam hit may well tear off some ship turrets and/or subsystems, and for some ships this would make it much easier to disarm/disable them.

thus adding to the realism of the game.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Fry_Day
I was reading the forum after a sequence of unfortunate affairs in real-life™ had unfolded

?? HaKol b'seder, achi?

[Fry_Day]

?? HaKol b'seder, achi?

I woudln't go that far... I knew one of the people that died in the bus bombing in haifa, so it's been a bit rough lately

[Killfrenzy]

You have my condolences, FD.

[Unknown Target]

...I would settle for something like Star Trek: Bridge Commander

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Fry_Day

I woudln't go that far... I knew one of the people that died in the bus bombing in haifa, so it's been a bit rough lately

Z"L... I didn't know anyone personally, but I have a ton of friends who knew the Litel family quite well.

[StratComm]

Originally posted by deep_eyes
unless they were just plates getting blown off...

Now that's an idea (I know this has nothing to do with GeoMod, but it's been brought up now ).  Make a special object, low poly (maybe as low as 20 or so, or lower) that is a default impact debris.  Like the stuff your fighter throws off in engine wash, but bigger, solid, and persistant.  A damaged plate, with perhaps a bit of the damage texture and a default texture that is automatically replaced with the texture of the polygon taking damage, is thrown off of a capship every time a weapon deals more than a certain amount of damage.  For beams, this could be computed every couple of seconds (so long beams could cut away multiple plates) and for other weapons on impact.  Or just on impact, that would work too.  They would be capped (after so many are present, no more appear or they are replaced by new ones) so that you couldn't generate more than the engine can handle.  This would allow a lot of little bits to be floating around the site of a battle, without many extra polygons sitting around, as well as simulating damage without having to mess with the ship model itself.

[vyper]

Originally posted by StratComm

Now that's an idea (I know this has nothing to do with GeoMod, but it's been brought up now ).  Make a special object, low poly (maybe as low as 20 or so, or lower) that is a default impact debris.  Like the stuff your fighter throws off in engine wash, but bigger, solid, and persistant.  A damaged plate, with perhaps a bit of the damage texture and a default texture that is automatically replaced with the texture of the polygon taking damage, is thrown off of a capship every time a weapon deals more than a certain amount of damage.  For beams, this could be computed every couple of seconds (so long beams could cut away multiple plates) and for other weapons on impact.  Or just on impact, that would work too.  They would be capped (after so many are present, no more appear or they are replaced by new ones) so that you couldn't generate more than the engine can handle.  This would allow a lot of little bits to be floating around the site of a battle, without many extra polygons sitting around, as well as simulating damage without having to mess with the ship model itself.

Give that man a headz

[Edwin]

an excelent idea, but the parts of the model of the ship would need to be changed so that it doesn't look like the thing is just 'shedding' excess armor but not actually loosing anything.

ex. a ship like Gigas or Gargant could end up in a cloud of hull plating and look like it has taken no damage.

[StratComm]

But that gets into geomod again, and that really can't happen with the FS2 engine.  This is just an added effect that simulates damage without actually changing the ship model.

[Raptor]

I'm pretty sure that this has been suggested before, but what about making the main hull 'damaged', with chunks cut out of it, and then use spare submodels to 'cover up' these holes? The cover plate could only be three-four polys, just enough to hide the 'damage'. Then when the submodel/subsystem is destroyed, theres the gaping hole in the ships side.

Of course, this would be a lot of work for ship modellers...

[StratComm]

And it would eat polycount, and not be backwards-compatable.  That's what is refered to as making a Boadecia of a model.  Most complex model in FS2 actually, though it never gets credit for it.  It's got too many drawbacks in ship construction to be truely feasable, and there are difficulties that arise in properly texturing such models as well.

[Terorist]

Originally posted by StratComm
Now that's an idea (I know this has nothing to do with GeoMod, but it's been brought up now ).  Make a special object, low poly (maybe as low as 20 or so, or lower) that is a default impact debris.  ...

Hmm, this might work, wouldn't it? Just automate a process of putting damage decals over the places where armor gets blown off... it would also require that those parts can't produce any more plates when hit again. What do you think?

[Edwin]

Originally posted by Terorist

Hmm, this might work, wouldn't it? Just automate a process of putting damage decals over the places where armor gets blown off... it would also require that those parts can't produce any more plates when hit again. What do you think?

excellent idea. and ad a tag to it to check if it is over a subsystem. That way if plates get blown away from a subsystem it willl show burnt-out wiring and make the subsystem eisier to destroy.