[Falcon X]

Originally posted by Mr Carrot
The advance by the British XXX Corps from Caen to Brussels in WW2 was the fastest.

Im ok despite having to battle with anti-war protesters on the train every day. Dont read the torygraph on the train going into london.

You sure Patton's 3rd Army wasn't faster?

[Mr Carrot]

Patton? bwhahahahahah. Seriously im going from WW2 by Keegan here. Largest area of ground covered and occupied in the fastest amount of time. Patton mounted the wars fastest large scale operation for the relief of the 101st.

[Bobboau]

question, is the current war the fastest distance covered?
and if not what was the fastest

[Rictor]

good for them, glad to see one country thats not whipped

BTW, who cares how fast they advance through the desert, the city fighting will be sloow

[Mr Carrot]

fastest distance covered is hard because of the use of airborn troops etc. In Nam you had marines deploying hundreds of miles behind enemy lines and making firebases, though techinicaly an insertion it could still count.

The fastest advance then was the British 2nd army (or 2nd army group, 1 uk army 1 can army an armoured corps (XXX lead elements reached brussels 1st) and a half strength mech corps all with intergrated RAF units) from Caen to Brussels, it just happened to be that they secured the land they were covering so it counts as an advance and occupation. An advance of 186 miles in 5 days. In the same period the Coalition (or more specificaly 3rd ID) had advanced around 150 miles.

Six armies in normandy = win book.

[Mr Carrot]

The speed and bredth of the axis of advance is crucial, theres no point engagin in city fighting unless you can isolate the city (or you get a stalingrad esque scenario of both sides funneling in troops either side of the city) you can take out supply lines and production centers. Its a vast propoganda and morale victory, you control 50% of the country so what if only 3% of thats used it looks impressive. Can bring up airborn assets to foward operating areas far closer to the front lines (v. important for helos) Finally you deny an escpae route for the enemy he HAS to face you either on the open field or in the city but he cant leg it.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Mr Carrot
...mech corps...

[Nico]

Originally posted by Deepblue
Actually I thought they found some Russian made chemical warheads. If true I think I need not wonder why the Russians didn't like the idea...

So what about the USA and the nuke detonators they sold to Hussein around 1990? That's sooooo easy to criticize people for selling stuff when there's no war going on yet, right?

[J.F.K.]

Originally posted by Bobboau
not sure about chemical warheads but we've found GPS jammers, and there selling night vission gogles to them

How sure are you of that? I heard reports of that, but then some American defence guy recanted on it, saying the claims were not 'completely substantiated'

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Razor

EDIT. By the way, Aldo, since you really like to use words like genocide, mass murder, massacre, I would strongly recommend you to take a look at this web site. Please be advised that this site contains shocking material. http://mujweb.atlas.cz/www/dok13/genocide/genocide.html

Can you justify the attempted massacre, repatriation or otherwise removal of the civillian Kosovo Albanian population?  NO, of course you can't.

Incidentally, the Yugolsav army did more to encourage and raise support for the KLA than anyone else.

NB:  anyone seen teh report on the Warrior APC's being attacked by that A-10 in the Herald?

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/archive/31-3-19103-1-5-9.html

[Mr Carrot]

The UK and US sold Iraq chemical components that could be used to make chemical weapons or facilities to produce them. They did NOT sell them the weapons directly. The FRENCH were the only western power to sell chemical and bio weapons/knowlegde of how to make them and were certainly the only power to sell anything of a nuclear nature (gg Israel for blowing that french reactor up). Its also the French that stand to loose AT least 4 billion a year in export sales and a possible 25 billion oil contract. The French premier stood for office again because it allowed him to escape charges of fraud, and hes apparently the moral beacon of the world.

And at the time Iraq was at war with Iran which at the time was the center of Islamic terrorism and responsible for much chaos in the western world so you back the lesser of 2 evils. Iran is still a bit dodgy but has calmed down a lot, Iraq on the other hand hasnt.

Finally about the FF thing aldo pointed out, yet another FF incedent on the part of an Air National Guard officer, this time on Scimitars not Warriors, http://www.anbg.gov.au/images/flags/union-jack.gif this apparently is the iraqi flag the 6foot by 8foot one flying on the back of the scimitar did nothing to stop the attack. Nor did the EXTRA iff panels the 2nd and 4th tanks in the formation had.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Mr Carrot
The UK and US sold Iraq chemical components that could be used to make chemical weapons or facilities to produce them. They did NOT sell them the weapons directly.  

No, of course, they just shown how to make them, and provided the components.

Mmh, a proof. Let me open google, it should take less than a minute. Ok, here we go:
"The U.S. was far from innocent. In 1988, the Unisys Corporation sold Saddam a giant, $8.7 million dollar computer system configured as a "personnel database" - in other words, set up to track Iraqi citizens. Unisys sold it directly to Saddam's Ministry of the Interior, home to his secret police. Unisys also sold high-speed computers to the Ministry of Defense and to the Saddam State Establishment, that cranked out components for missiles and nuclear weapons. Our electronics went to every known nuclear and missile site in Iraq. These included the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission, Iraqi sites that made A-bomb fuel and nuclear weapon detonators, as well as Iraq's main missile research complex. Companies like Tektronix (high-speed diagnostic equipment), Perkin-Elmer (computers and instruments for quality control), Finnigan MAT (computers useful for monitoring uranium enrichment), and the U.S. subsidiary of Siemens (instruments for analyzing powders useful for A-bomb and missile manufacture) had sales recorded in government export logs.
"

Source: Wall Street Journal

I think it would be interesting to know what Hussein would do with, I quote, "instruments for analyzing powders useful for A-bomb and missile manufacture". Probably nuclear powerplants, coz the US government would never allow Hussein to use such tools for a doubtfull,... well... use? right?

[Mr Carrot]

I hardly think computers ranks up agains thte French practicaly building them a nuclear reactor.

The reason that the US and UK started supplying suspicious things instead of just conventional kit is because they couldnt afford for Iraq to loose. An Arab superstate headed by the Iyatolla Khomeni does not make for happy happy joy joy middle eastern relations (or stopping Israel from chucking some nukes about).

[Nico]

Originally posted by Mr Carrot
I hardly think computers ranks up agains thte French practicaly building them a nuclear reactor.

Oh yeah, tools for building weapons is much better than a civilian installation? a nuclear powerplant is a... power plant. It's a thing any country can buy, it's a good. it's like selling trains or boeings. You can't do bombs with what you get from a nuclear powerplant. different uranium, different technics, no compression stage.
On the other hand, the US sold computers to help manufacture nukes. It's smaller, so it's better?
Oh, and just as a final note, this is the first link I clicked, I've seen stuff about nuke detonators sold by the US, or stuff like that. I just happened to misclick this thread and my eye was caught by the big "FRENCH" ( oh, country of bastards, as I've read somewhere ), so I, well, thought I might reply. I'm done now, don't worry...

[Bobboau]

a nuclear powerplant is more than just a powerplant, it's a nuclear powerplant, reactors can be set up in a manner that you can get something that can be made useable for weapons.

[Styxx]

Oh, no! It's all fault of the French!!



Now seriously people, don't make me do nasty things to this thread and ban all conversation about the war, okay? Lets all be civil about it, and talk without insulting other board members.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Styxx
Oh, no! It's all fault of the French!!

of course. you didn't know?

Now seriously people, don't make me do nasty things to this thread and ban all conversation about the war, okay? Lets all be civil about it, and talk without insulting other board members. [/B]

that wouldn't annoying me a single bit ( all the contrary actually ).
Nah, don't worry, I won't make a fuss or anything, I usually never check this thread, and I won't do again before some time, most likely. always the same ramblings going on again and again

[Mr Carrot]

Im not blaming the French people i just think the current French government is being spiteful and petty. I disagree with the whole notion of banning or impeding French imports (the Oreilly campaign) but Chircas constant stamping his feet and crying doesnt really convey an image of moral superiority.

[Mr Carrot]

BTW heres some numbers, France made 14 billion in arms exports to Iraq in the 80s. The Uk made 300 million.

[Falcon X]

Originally posted by Mr Carrot
Im not blaming the French people i just think the current French government is being spiteful and petty. I disagree with the whole notion of banning or impeding French imports (the Oreilly campaign) but Chircas constant stamping his feet and crying doesnt really convey an image of moral superiority.

Don't mess with the O man.