[Goober5000]

Since this was buried in the other MVE thread, I thought I'd start a new topic.

Here's a question - has anyone reverse-engineered the MVE file specs? If we knew those, then it might be possible for the SCP team to allow MVEs to be played with fs2_open.

Another tidbit - I don't think that this use of the MVE format would be illegal. I think there's a precedent for this; some video game company reverse-engineered Nintendo's cartridge encryption back in the 1980s so that their players could play Nintendo's games. The court ruled that this fell under "fair use".

Here's one writeup... http://www.lgu.com/cr46.htm

Can this apply to our situation?

[Stryke 9]

Well, we're no company... and while reverse-engineering is possible without source code, it'd be extremely painful and take at least a year of people putting in solid work on it.

Much better to start poking Interplay again about it, or use the existing wrapper.

[Goober5000]

I assumed that whoever wrote the MVE EXE program had figured out the file format.

[Stryke 9]

I assume that was Interplay. It's got the same stuff on it as the other Descent Manager programs.

[Joey_21]

Doesn't make sense to me to write a program and release it and then later call it illegal and forbid it to be posted...

I really don't think the Descent Manager was affiliated with Interplay in that way. Otherwise we wouldn't even have the MVE Extractor to begin with.

[Stryke 9]

Schizophrenic companies happen all the time, but I don't know who Heiko Hermann is.

It was almost certainly done with Interplay's active cooperation, however, as there's just no way that someone could reverse-engineer the VP files, the POF files, the movie files, and the internal pilot files all on his lonesome in such a short timespan. Likely they were originally done for Descent, which Interplay might not have been planning on profitting from any more, and then some parts were recalled when the FS series was rolled out, but I dunno.

[CP5670]

It was created by the DNet guys, mainly Heiko Hermann (I think he works for volition now, but at that time he didn't). Anyway, I think that all MVEExtract did was to add in a player at the beginning, and even part that was taken from the trailers (which are also basically mve's), so it did not actually mess around much with the file itself. It actually couldn't play the mve's directly either, but only convert them to playable exe's and back. I tried looking at the DNet specs area for Descent 2 and the closest thing I could find was the mvl format, which is of no use to us but it said this stuff there:

Note that there was a tool to extract and play MVE and MVL files called Descent Manager MVEEXTRACT32. However the tool had to be removed from our pages due to copyright problems with Interplay.

The file format of MVL is quite easy... only the format of the files it contains - the MVE file format - is quite complex (and we don't have any specs for it...):

[Stryke 9]

Some people still have the MVE Extractor on disk from when it WAS up.


By the way, it doesn't work for ****. Anyone got a pilot or savegame or something which is on the last mission? I really don't wanna take the time to play the whole game again just to rip these movies...

[CP5670]

Some people still have the MVE Extractor on disk from when it WAS up.

yeah, just about everyone here does; so much for Interplay...

[Turnsky]

Originally posted by Stryke 9

 Anyone got a pilot or savegame or something which is on the last mission? I really don't wanna take the time to play the whole game again just to rip these movies...

Here you go

you'll need winrar

[Bobboau]

Heiko does not work for V, never has, probly never will, POF specs were let out by V, VP sprecs were reverse engenered by Heiko long before than, and he also cracked the table encription code in FS1 table files, most other file types were quasi hacked by Heiko, someone (about a week ago I think) found a diferen't MVE extracter and source for it, I think this was done in the balder's gate comunity as they used the same format for that game as well

[Fetty]

but but but the mve format makes no sense its allmost as big as a jpg sequence actualy coming to think of it jpgs might actualy be smaller with same quality

[Sesquipedalian]

Originally posted by Fetty
but but but the mve format makes no sense its allmost as big as a jpg sequence actualy coming to think of it jpgs might actualy be smaller with same quality

...yes...

[Inquisitor]

Serves me right for not poking my head up here

I actually found some source code for an MVE player, ala the Fallout community and linked (I think) from a post on an Icculus.org mailing list post.

Problem is, apart from the file size: Why bother? The format is old, innefficient, Interplay has told us on more than one occasion that it's illegal to use it, and if you REALLY must see the original MVEs, just play with the original exe.

SCP is about backwards compatibility to a point, but what it's really about is the FUTURE of FS2.

Look forwards, not backwards

Anyway, some fallout sites still have the code out there, so if you were academically interested, that would be one place. The Icculus.org port also seems to have a working MVE player, so that's another source.

This has been a PSA

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by Inquisitor
Problem is, apart from the file size: Why bother? The format is old, innefficient, Interplay has told us on more than one occasion that it's illegal to use it, and if we REALLY must see the original MVEs, just play with the original exe.

But not illegal to make a player for, if I understand the Betamax case correctly.  I'm sure everyone would love to watch the MVEs with the SCP. Sure, it's hardly needed, but someone would eventually get around to adding in the player.

Can .you post a link to the code?

This has been a PSA

Gak, don't remind me about them!

[Inquisitor]

Well, unless you are ponying up for a lawyer

Interplay said it was, they own it, therefore we're not using it

On that note, the code is actually in the icculus.org fs2 port, they have a webbased CVS methinks at www.icculus.org

[Stryke 9]

Sheesh, you people just never listen, do you?

FALLOUT MVE IS NOT FREESPACE MVE. I KNOW. I TRIED IT ALREADY.

[Inquisitor]

Ah, well, Icculus.org got the code SOMEWHERE

[Kazan]

besides the point an MVE decoder is m00t if you don't have an mve encoder (yes i know you can write an encoder based off your decoder knowledge -- but why bother -- there are much better formats, divx anyone?)

[Petrarch of the VBB]

Don't know if this has been answered, but Heiko Hermann is in FS2's credits. I believe he was responsible for Germanifying FS2.