[Noise]

Okay, here's the deal.  I making a series of stealth missions for my campaign and I need a new stealth fighter, preferrable heavy.  I already have the GTsB Scimitar, but any new stealth bombers would also be appreciated.

[karajorma]

Aldo's Casualties of War had a nice stealth fighter in it. I suppose it could pass as a light bomber with some minor table mods.

[Galemp]

As a matter of fact, I made a reskin of the Bakha a few weeks ago to make it a Vasudan stealth bomber. It's on this thread (don't bump it.)

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,14123.0.html

[Petrarch of the VBB]

But surely a heavy stealth fighter is a contradiction.

E.G.
"2000 Arabs crept up to the oasis"
The Nasty Affair at the Burami Oasis

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
But surely a heavy stealth fighter is a contradiction.

Of course it isn`t. It just unbalances the game if not used carefully. There is no good reason why once the GTVA have stealth systems they wouldn`t try to fit it to every craft they can get.

And no reason why it shouldn`t work if the mission designer wants to say it did.  

The only problem with heavy stealth fighters is that it negates the point in having heavy non-stealth fighters unless you cripple them in some way (ie make them rare and expensive, give them poor armourments or make them very slow and unmanouverable).

Noe of that precludes the possibility of having heavy stealth ships in any way though.

[Petrarch of the VBB]

Hmm, 'spose I'm convinced.

after all, B2 are very large and heavy.

[Liberator]

A Heavy or Assault class stealth fighter could be balanced by a large payload, which is what primarily sets these classes off from the lighter classes like Interceptor or Space Superiority.  This could be set off by insanely low hitpoints or weak sheilds.  Also it should be limited to the lowest primaries only, no Prometheus S or Kayser, only one or two low power, basically useless weapons, like the Prometheus, or even ballistic primaries.

[diamondgeezer]

Er... you guys do realise that huge tradeoffs have to made for 'stealth', right? Ever tried to fly a B2 or F-117? They're about as manouverable as a sofa. The F-117 is called the stealth 'fighter' only because it's only able to carry two bombs, and the UASF were too embarressed to call it a bomber. Even the F-22 suffers for its stealthiness, since its weapons are carrried internally resulting in limited capacity (8 missiles as opposed to a Typhoon's 14 - Tyhpoon pwnz j00).

And fair enough, in FreeSpace you can take your Erinyes or Herc II and give it a stealth flag, but who are you tying to kid?

Anyway, to answer the original question, Aldo's your man. As mentioned, he's done a rather tasty stealth fighter which you'll find in the COW VP archive. Make sure you ask him before you pinch it

---------------
Diamond Geezer supports the action taken against Iraq

[karajorma]

I agree with you along those lines DG but that's just in real life. Doesn`t mean it has to happen in the game.

There is nothing to say the GTVA couldn`t develop a better stealth system that doesn`t have any trade off. The only problem would be that no one would want to fly the normal fighters.

That means that in games like FS2 stealth fighters always have a trade off so as to preserve gameplay but that isn`t done for logical reasons.

[Star Dragon]

IF anything Payload should be the biggest stat to suffer. Especially in the secondaries.

Here's another look at a stealth problem.. In Star Trek, the Romulans have stealth for Everything! Nuff said. The Federation (as far as we know) have ONE Stealth Destroyer (The Defiant) loard knows they want to get cloaking devices on every fed ship too but they have a treaty with the Romulans, break it and it's war... I have heard no handicap for the defiant after it was fited with a cloaking deviced except for the shield issue powering up/down. Now this is the ultimate form of stealth but related I think...

  I would either have 1 primary weapon and a small missile payload (1 bank) or 3 primaries but NO secondaries. The thought behind this is though it is a HEAVY fighter (armor wise) it simply does not have the armamnets to take the normal fighter role. It's main use is for recon, surprise assualts (where seconds count) like the initail phase of an attack. Send in the light stelth recon units to scout the area and report enemy positions/numbers. then send in the heavy stealth uniths and move them into attack positions and lie in wait till the main force is read. All critical targets or targets of opportunity are covered. the signal is given and all hell breaks loose. as the main forces star warping in (seconds of vulnerability and alerting the enemy to their presence) the stealth units open fire on their covered targets with complete surprise and in seconds will have normal fighter/bomber/capship support.  That is how I would use the Heavy stealth fighter...

[J.F.K.]

Originally posted by diamondgeezer
The F-117 is called the stealth 'fighter' only because it's only able to carry two bombs, and the UASF were too embarressed to call it a bomber.  

There's something I didn't know. Thanks for the snippet

[LtNarol]

Star Trek also has teleporters, androids, and magical deflector dishes capable of solving every known problem in the universe (Voyager).

For starters, Star Trek isn't exactly the height of realism, converting 1 person into energy means you have enough energy to blow up a planet, much less some puny little spaceship - don't bother with the dampening buffer explanation, its not very convincing.

If you want to take it one step further, the Defiant isn't a fighter.  Putting cloaking devices on a cruiser-sized vessel is a wee bit different from putting such a device on a fighter, where the cloaking device would be about half the size of the fighter.  Capital ships in Star Trek obviously have room to spare, they always have nearly empty cargo bays.

Finally, Freespace2 isn't Star Trek.  The plot is different, the tech is different, you can't use what's in one to justify what you do to the other.

Just my 2 cents

[Star Dragon]

You realy got it in for ST huh?

  Point was without a handicap (like in ST) you have lack of play balance. That's what I was trying to say... And yes consideraing all things you can compare anything to anything else as long as you remember KPCOFGS (kingdom Phylum Class Order Family Genus Sci-Fium) I like to remember it as "King Philip Came Over For Good Sci-fi!"  Only way I made it through Biology! (yes I know species is the last acronym so bite me )

Meaning you CAN compare all sci-fi to any other sci-fi, just don't be intolerant of the differences you are gonna find. IDIC - Infinite Diversity of Infinate Combinations... - Gene Roddenberry...(RIP)..

[TrashMan]

Fact 1 - Star Trek is great (I don't count Voyager as Star Trek, I count it as ****!). the only thing that bug me is the transporter (all other tech is possible - so sez my physics profesor) and the uber-powerfull-energy life forms....
And if you wann see a real powerrfull cloacked ship, look at the Galaxy-X... It would eat the Defiant and half the Romulan fleet for breakfast....


But back to topic...
There is something good even in bad thing and something bad even in good things (at least a little)- law of the universe.

The point is, that you can add ultra fast, ultra manuverable, ultra powerfull bombers then... I mean, in space bigger size doesn't mean that the ship would move slower!

And that would suck!

[kasperl]

Originally posted by TrashMan
Fact 1 - Star Trek is great (I don't count Voyager as Star Trek, I count it as ****!).  

what about Enterprise?

[Petrarch of the VBB]

Don't get me started on that barrel of inconsistency!

[Liberator]

Um, explain to me what makes a specific fighter Heavy or Assault class if not the secondary payload capacity?  I mean if the Herc 2 had the same payload as the Pegasus it would be a floating target dummy.

[Petrarch of the VBB]

Shields? Armour? Sanitation facilites for the pilot?

[Liberator]

Well since we know from the Pegasus that stealth generators require significant hull surface area, so one would assume that armor would be the first thing to go.  Some secondary space would be sacrificed but that could be resolved with a minor internal rearrangement.

[IceFire]

If you were to do a good heavy fighter...I'd say...limit the armor, max the guns out at 4, make the guns have low compatability with certain weapon types, and try and make the craft have a specialized purpose.

I see stealth fighters being used as scouts and espinoage.  A heavy stealth fighter could be used to take out a specific target...say a cruiser or a transport and then fading away.