[Stunaep]

The latest social poll shows, that 20% of Estonian children aging 13-18 have done drugs. The last case involved a 7-year-old girl dying of heroine overdose. Autopsy indicated that the girld had been on drugs for at least 1 1/2 years.

Now, I'm not familiar with the statistics in the US, and GB, and Netherlands, where most of our members are from, but for a country with a population of 1.5 million, this is catastrophic. I mean, russia has 30% of the population who are alchoholics, and you can see what it has done to them.

So, how are things at your place, and what do you think of our situation. Discuss.

[Tiara]

MEH MEH MEH!

More countries should allow coffeeshops and stuff. It allows for "clean" drugs to be used. Not illigal, bad, and toxic drugs. I am all for coffee shops cause drugs will be used one way or another. And I prefer the way we handle it.

Also, when drugs is totally, 100% illigal. You will have a lot more crime in the way of drugdealers and such.

Though harddrugs is a whole different thing as there is no such thing as "clean" harddrugs.

[Nico]

they wanted to make canabis legal in France last year, but the idea has been trashed ( didn't fit at all with the current internal policies laws which tends to become more and more hard for that kind of stuff, mainly for driver security purposes ).
about that soft drugs things, my opinion is kindda random. sure a **** bar is less dangerous than tobacco, that's a known fact. but it does have effects on peoples behaviour. one of my friends told me he had no pb driving after haing a join, then we go for a ride, and he was astonished how slow I was driving. slow being 90km/h...

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Venom
they wanted to make canabis legal in France last year, but the idea has been trashed ( didn't fit at all with the current internal policies laws which tends to become more and more hard for that kind of stuff, mainly for driver security purposes ).

Then France too, will follow this pattern:

Big ass anti drugs campaign for popularity > seems to work > Underground illigal drug traffic increases as when something is illigal people want it even more > bad drugs enter the market > people start dying

I mean, if someone wants drugs, he/she will get it anyway. Whats the harm in providing "clean" drugs instead of letting illigal drugs control the market?

[an0n]

Dude, that IS slow.

Anything under 200 is considered 'old-lady driving' in my circle of 'friends'.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Tiara

Then France too, will follow this pattern:

Big ass anti drugs campaign for popularity > seems to work > Underground illigal drug traffic increases as when something is illigal people want it even more > bad drugs enter the market > people start dying

I mean, if someone wants drugs, he/she will get it anyway. Whats the harm in providing "clean" drugs instead of letting illigal drugs control the market?

will follow this pattern?
todays news:
a 16 years old kid in hospital, being stabbed by another 16 years old kid, both were involved in a cannabis trade at school. doctors are very pessimistic.
and there's nothing new here.
and An0n, I meant he thought I was driving at 40 km/h
and I laugh at your friends, that's just allbiggy talk

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Venom


will follow this pattern?
todays news:
a 16 years old kid in hospital, being stabbed by another 16 years old kid, both were involved in a cannabis trade at school. doctors are very pessimistic.
 

And it'll only get worse when the gov will go on a drug hunting spree. When its hard to get drugs, there will be a high demand. When there is a high demand dealers will appear. And rest assured that those drugs are far worse then the drugs you can get at the coffeeshop.

Also, a kid getting stabbed over drugs is truly nothing special in a country with as many inhabitants as France. If its not over drugs then its an out of control barfight. Then again, we barely have any drug related incidents besides the usual driving under influence. But that really won't go away, no matter what you do.

[vyper]

Country A ---> Flow of drugs ---> Country B

What stops that flow then?

Force country A to stop production.

Just don't do a US job like Afghanistan where drug production has increased.

[kasperl]

Originally posted by Tiara

And it'll only get worse when the gov will go on a drug hunting spree. When its hard to get drugs, there will be a high demand. When there is a high demand dealers will appear. And rest assured that those drugs are far worse then the drugs you can get at the coffeeshop.

uhm, in Eindhoven and the places around it, the government has gone on a drug huting spree, most of the cops here are wasting their backs by dragging weed out of homes constantly.

[Stryke 9]

vyper: Yeah, you go ahead and try that. At absolute best, if the other government cooperates with yours metaphorically ramming metaphorical sharp things up their metaphorical ass, the police are actually, say, 10% effective against drug farmers and traffickers (killing hundreds, and putting many thousands of people- some of whom such as the farmers pretty much have a choice between the drug trade and a slow death by starvation), you get something like Mexico last month, and hundreds of DC kids dying because due to supply shortages their crack is two parts toxic chemical and one part dog****. Our government's real ing brilliant.


Legalization will never happen in this country, at least, the DEA's too much of a cash cow. Thousands of employees; billions of dollars; funnels millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of people into local prisons, feeding the whole pork system; no real expected effect... it's an embezzler's dream, and quite a lot of the people in power are embezzlers. Hell, whole reason drugs were banned in the US in the first place was that they didn't wanna fire all the Volstead cops after Prohibition.

[vyper]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
vyper: Yeah, you go ahead and try that. At absolute best, if the other government cooperates with yours metaphorically ramming metaphorical sharp things up their metaphorical ass, the police are actually, say, 10% effective against drug farmers and traffickers (killing hundreds, and putting many thousands of people- some of whom such as the farmers pretty much have a choice between the drug trade and a slow death by starvation), you get something like Mexico last month, and hundreds of DC kids dying because due to supply shortages their crack is two parts toxic chemical and one part dog****. Our government's real ing brilliant.

Who said anything about thier government? Secondly, I'm not interested in saving the addicts right now - I'm interested in stopping more being created.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by kasperl

uhm, in Eindhoven and the places around it, the government has gone on a drug huting spree, most of the cops here are wasting their backs by dragging weed out of homes constantly.

Thats what happens if you cross the line. Even in Holland we have rules about drugs. Allowing drugs is one thing. Allowing illigal drugs is another things. It isn't allowed to grow weed in your own home (more then 4 weed plants that is). And if everyone does that its only logical the police does that. But you won't see the police cleaning out a coffeeshop unless they are selling illigal drugs.

You have to remember that drugs sold in coffeeshops is tested and stuff. Homegrown drugs isn't tested and therefor can be dangerous.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by vyper


Who said anything about thier government? Secondly, I'm not interested in saving the addicts right now - I'm interested in stopping more being created.

So you just want to "ignore" their government? suuuure. You can try that without... ARGH! I'm not wasting my time with this

I might've misunderstood your comment (the "Who said anything about thier government?") So forgive if I did

Secondly, drugs will ALWAYS flow into a country. If one country stops producing the next takes over. And believe me when I say that you cannot clean out any drugs producing country without litterally destroying some of them.

[kasperl]

Originally posted by Tiara

Thats what happens if you cross the line. Even in Holland we have rules about drugs. Allowing drugs is one thing. Allowing illigal drugs is another things. It isn't allowed to grow weed in your own home (more then 4 weed plants that is). And if everyone does that its only logical the police does that. But you won't see the police cleaning out a coffeeshop unless they are selling illigal drugs.

You have to remember that drugs sold in coffeeshops is tested and stuff. Homegrown drugs isn't tested and therefor can be dangerous.

well, agreed, but this was a little OTT, especially since most equipment is being sold by the police,                       and bought by the weed-growers

[Tiara]

Originally posted by kasperl



well, agreed, but this was a little OTT, especially since most equipment is being sold by the police,                       and bought by the weed-growers

equipment?

[kasperl]

Originally posted by Tiara

equipment?

the lamps, watering instalations, whatever else you need to grow that stuff.

first, they confiscate it, then they auctioned it.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by kasperl


the lamps, watering instalations, whatever else you need to grow that stuff.

first, they confiscate it, then they auctioned it.

Cause it isn't illigal to own those. Who cares who owns a lamp, watering installation etc? You can buy that ANYWHERE. Only now its cheaper

[kasperl]

Originally posted by Tiara


Cause it isn't illigal to own those. Who cares who owns a lamp, watering installation etc? You can buy that ANYWHERE. Only now its cheaper

the problem is, the poeple who lost it during the raid,go to the auction and buy their stuff back.


so basicly the police made a lot of money by dragging all that stuff around and burnging the weed.

[Stryke 9]

Same as always.

Used to be, they'd sell the drugs, too.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by kasperl


the problem is, the poeple who lost it during the raid,go to the auction and buy their stuff back.


so basicly the police made a lot of money by dragging all that stuff around and burnging the weed.

Yes, but even if they didn't resell it they'd just get new stuff. This way they make a buck out of it But then again, the person caught producing the drugs gets a big ass fine to pay. MO MONEY!