Poll

Do you want a Campaign Forum?

Yes!! :nod:
13 (50%)
No!! :p
13 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 25

Voting closed: August 09, 2003, 04:17:47 am

Author Topic: New Forum  (Read 4985 times)

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Offline Xelion

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This is actually only for Poll voting to this thread because I fogot to add it :rolleyes:...

so post your votes and hurry!!! :nod: :D

 

Offline TopAce

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Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
i'll ignore Topace's absent-mindedness for the time being :p


What's your problem with my post? Tell it openly. :thepimp:
My community contributions - Get my campaigns from here.

I already announced my retirement twice, yet here I am. If I bring up that topic again, don't believe a word.

 

Offline Shrike

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Threads merged.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline J.F.K.

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I'm not convinced it would help, so I said no... then again, is there harm in trying?
.
[font="SerpentineDBol"]. . . . W H O . I S . T H E . M A N , . W H O . I S . T H E . M Y T H ?[/font]

 

Offline Fury

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If you want new forums, make it at least non-Freespace related then. Campaigns can go to modding or general FS forums just fine.

Although HLP is mostly FS community, there's no harm to have much broader variety of forums, as long as there is need for them and sufficient activity. FS will not keep going forever, times changes. And so should HLP.

 

Offline karajorma

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I'm for an Everyone Else forum.

I'm not for merging all the hosted forums together.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline TopAce

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I voted yes, we would be able to know more about every mods in progress.
My community contributions - Get my campaigns from here.

I already announced my retirement twice, yet here I am. If I bring up that topic again, don't believe a word.

 

Offline Taristin

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I voted no. Mainly because I agree with Shrike (I think) when he said there are already forums for the campaigns. They don't get updated as it is, why should there be a forum for projects that haven't had time to post updates and the like?


If we wanted a dead forum, we could send people to the USBB on the VWBB :rolleyes:
Freelance Modeler | Amateur Artist

 

Offline Xelion

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Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
I voted no. Mainly because I agree with Shrike (I think) when he said there are already forums for the campaigns. They don't get updated as it is, why should there be a forum for projects that haven't had time to post updates and the like?


If we wanted a dead forum, we could send people to the USBB on the VWBB :rolleyes:


Does anyone actually read threads properly some do but some definitely do not! I'm trying to get new fans to join up with HLP and Freespace2 particulary..the only reason the community hasn't actually been growing very fast or at all is because users search for what there looking for and just leave if they don't find it and go onto a new game.

If this isn't very clear to those out there then I suggest not even replying :nod: to this thread or voting on that matter..

btw another forum in fact will substantially increase traffic in areas were needed and decongest the forums which are used for other purposes already explained in this thread by several other users!:cool:

 

Offline Stryke 9

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People are looking for... unfinished campaigns?

If we were going to solve the problem of people taking a look and leaving because there is nothing here, a better idea would be to update the main page. Which was supposed to have happened about 6 months ago.

I don't think it's changed in two years, and there's nothing of any real quality on there. I know I'd leave if I was a newbie and saw that.

  

Offline Xelion

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I totally agree with u Stryke 9 on the Front Page being updated :nod:, but neither me or u have powers that grant us this. So right now I'm trying to create a 'cause & effect' that will bring light to the darkness...:p

 

Offline Shrike

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You want the front page updated?  Bug styxx cause he's writing the code for it. :p
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Still with the code bull****.

Is anyone still buying that having the front page coded is quicker and more convenient? Cos, you know, it's been years, and there hasn't been an update. Maybe in 2008, when there are all of six people left around, it'll be fast and convenient to them. The rest of us will have the good sense to move on to newer and prettier games, and maybe community pages where people have heard of FRIGGIN' HTML.

Christ. Takes me about an hour to make a page, ten minutes to modify one. What, exactly, do we need some special fancy coding **** for? For ****'s sake, just give me the job, I'll abuse it like all holy hell but at least there'll be something done by next weekend.

 

Offline diamondgeezer

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The dude's got a point. I mean I know you'll just say 'I'm paying for this so shut the **** up' but seriously, Shrike, what's the deal?

 

Offline Shrike

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Don't ***** at me.  I wanted a simple HTML setup like what we have now, but pretty much everyone else wanted it run on PHP.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Stryke 9

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That was a *****ing for all, not directed at you personally.

Anyway, I think at this point those who wanted PHP have seen the error of their sinful ways, and if they haven't I can just hit them with a sock full of quarters. Now. Problem solving.

I can do the page, it's simple enough, but after having tried to get the movie thing together for the past few months I have no patience left to try to coordinate the friggin' deranged sheep that comprise the community, and hence am not going to collect the models myself. Shrike, you wanna put up an announcement or some **** that all modders had best ship their models in for upload? Take at most a day after they're all in to write the tables, I'll email it in, and there we go.

And this is asking Shrike, dudes. I'm not going to sit around and ****ing wait a week while you weigh in on the pros and cons of ever ****ing doing jack **** ever again. If you're not in, you're not in, simple as that.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2003, 02:40:45 pm by 262 »

 

Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
...but after having tried to get the movie thing together for the past few months...


*ahem* ;)

Anyway, the frontpage update is not a simple update, as people here seem to be under the impression. Yeah, sure - I can throw together a new-looking HTML frontpage in a week along with the best of them, but that's not what we're doing.

Styxx is working on a whole new site structure, one that will allow you forumites to actively contribute to the content as much as you do on the forums.

It will be integrated with the forums at a certain level (ask Styxx for the specifics), so that what happens on the forums will be reflected on the site and vice versa. A glance at the main page and you'll be able to see various stats about forum activity, popular threads, etc. And that's just about the forums.

You'll login to the site under your own, err... logins (:p). You'll be able to post MODding articles and gudes, maintain your own art galleries, find people with the skills you need to finish that project, manage your hosted projects, and much more.
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Stealth

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when's the ETA of this Sandwich?  early 2005?

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Yeah, exciting. Except that vaporware never is exciting- it's been a ridiculous amount of time, we've lost untold numbers of prospective newbies to the lack of updates, and you've gotta be in friggin' denial to still imagine it's gonna happen.

How, exactly, is it different than a standard upload? The page itself doesn't have any special code that I can see- like I said, a day in Dreamweaver to add new table entries on the outside. If Gamespy has some wierd setup, that's one thing, but if this is another one of those "we're making it unnecessarily complex because it's more convenient because today is Opposite Day" things, then it's a relatively simple affair to chuck out the whole ****ing deal and make a new setup.

I mean, really, how hard can you manage to make a table of file listings? I've got a multimedia page with animations, multiple layers, mousovers I barely even understand and enough rendered **** to take a month in production, but when I get down to it I can crank out a page a week- and that's factoring in setting up scenes with existing models and rendering them. You don't have to do that, it's just text (which can be provided by the creator) and links to files (which have to be provided by the creator). There's jack **** to do, how can you possibly set it up so that it takes more than a year to add one single file to it?

Actually, I'm not sure I wanna know. But you see my point- this is just stupid.


Hell, who needs interactivity, anyway? It'd get abused, have to be moderated anyway, would contract bugs, be more difficult to fix, and already has hurt the community more than it ever is gonna help, and it ain't even up yet! Ten minutes to open the file in Dreamweaver, copy/paste a table, type in a new name, reroute the link and paste in a new 50-word description, and upload the ****er. There. You've got a setup with a one-day to one-week lag between post and upload (infinitely shorter than the nonexistent one now), it's simple to maintain and fix, can be quality-controlled by admins, and for ****'s sake if you're all too lazy to do it give me the upload codes and I can manage it in my spare time. I've done more difficult ones before.


See, here's my take- I can have this system up in a week, given that someone gives the the upload information and someone else lets the modders know what's up. From what I hear and what I've seen of the realities of databases, it'll work very nearly as well as anything you can create. It can be maintained and updated in seconds, requires only the amount of effort involved in making, say, a newspost (or spamming here, since the newspost is kinda a bad example seeing how rarely you do that). And if this mythic fancy-schmantsy new uberfunctional frontpage ever comes along, you can put it on over this one just as easily as the ****ty, run-down piece of crap we have now. There's no real loss on anyone's side, I've offered to do the majority of the work (which is still next to none) already several times, and for once we won't have something that's an embarassment to everyone around. Unless you can come up with a really good, compelling reason as to why this can't or shouldn't be done (One that doesn't involve the concept of "I'm even too lazy to let someone else do all the work"), this is all just**** and excuse-making. Inertia. Whatever it is, I'm not gonna sit around waiting for a code Godot just because y'all admins are under the illusion that it's gonna pop up tomorrow, and tomorro the next day (nobody else is fooled).

 

Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Yeah, exciting. Except that vaporware never is exciting- it's been a ridiculous amount of time, we've lost untold numbers of prospective newbies to the lack of updates, and you've gotta be in friggin' denial to still imagine it's gonna happen.

It's been under construction - by someone who already has a full-time job, by the way - for around 130 days. That's four months and change. Styxx happens to be uploading something today so that the admins can see what he's gotten so far - I'm hoping it'll be possible to show you guys, as well, if for nothing else than to keep you from sticking your foot in your mouth any longer.

How, exactly, is it different than a standard upload? The page itself doesn't have any special code that I can see- like I said, a day in Dreamweaver to add new table entries on the outside. If Gamespy has some wierd setup, that's one thing, but if this is another one of those "we're making it unnecessarily complex because it's more convenient because today is Opposite Day" things, then it's a relatively simple affair to chuck out the whole ****ing deal and make a new setup.

The current page has no special code that you can see because it's all executed server-side. It actually has tons of SSI code building the sidebar sections, page header and footer, news index, news headings, and news posts. Before I take more time  explaining how it works, go read a basic beginner's tutorial on SSI, will you?

But this isn't the point anyway. The reason the main site hasn't been updated beyond news posts is because to do so is clunky and requires FTP and HTML knowledge, something that not many staffers had much knowledge of in the pre-Styxx/Sandwich era. (;)). The only reason the news posts were updated with any sort of frequency at all was because the update process was completely via an online, web interface, and required zero HTML/FTP know-how. This is why we are building a new site where everything can be updated and added to via a web interface. Once complete, all staffers, and even hosted project leaders, will be able to update and maintain site content freely.


I mean, really, how hard can you manage to make a table of file listings? I've got a multimedia page with animations, multiple layers, mousovers I barely even understand and enough rendered **** to take a month in production, but when I get down to it I can crank out a page a week- and that's factoring in setting up scenes with existing models and rendering them. You don't have to do that, it's just text (which can be provided by the creator) and links to files (which have to be provided by the creator). There's jack **** to do, how can you possibly set it up so that it takes more than a year to add one single file to it?

There's a world of difference between a multimedia page and a dynamic page. And when, as you so eloquently put it, "there's jack **** to do" 50 times a day, it tends to add up.

Actually, I'm not sure I wanna know. But you see my point- this is just stupid.


Hell, who needs interactivity, anyway? It'd get abused, have to be moderated anyway, would contract bugs, be more difficult to fix, and already has hurt the community more than it ever is gonna help, and it ain't even up yet! Ten minutes to open the file in Dreamweaver, copy/paste a table, type in a new name, reroute the link and paste in a new 50-word description, and upload the ****er. There. You've got a setup with a one-day to one-week lag between post and upload (infinitely shorter than the nonexistent one now), it's simple to maintain and fix, can be quality-controlled by admins, and for ****'s sake if you're all too lazy to do it give me the upload codes and I can manage it in my spare time. I've done more difficult ones before.


See, here's my take- I can have this system up in a week, given that someone gives the the upload information and someone else lets the modders know what's up. From what I hear and what I've seen of the realities of databases, it'll work very nearly as well as anything you can create. It can be maintained and updated in seconds, requires only the amount of effort involved in making, say, a newspost (or spamming here, since the newspost is kinda a bad example seeing how rarely you do that). And if this mythic fancy-schmantsy new uberfunctional frontpage ever comes along, you can put it on over this one just as easily as the ****ty, run-down piece of crap we have now. There's no real loss on anyone's side, I've offered to do the majority of the work (which is still next to none) already several times, and for once we won't have something that's an embarassment to everyone around. Unless you can come up with a really good, compelling reason as to why this can't or shouldn't be done (One that doesn't involve the concept of "I'm even too lazy to let someone else do all the work"), this is all just**** and excuse-making. Inertia. Whatever it is, I'm not gonna sit around waiting for a code Godot just because y'all admins are under the illusion that it's gonna pop up tomorrow, and tomorro the next day (nobody else is fooled).


Keep in mind we're not just redoing the front page - it's the whole site except for the forums. So all your acclaimed "speed" at cranking out a page an week is irrelevant (I can crank out a page in an hour - so what?) That's not what we're doing.
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill