Poll

Do you want a Campaign Forum?

Yes!! :nod:
13 (50%)
No!! :p
13 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 25

Voting closed: August 09, 2003, 04:17:47 am

Author Topic: New Forum  (Read 5025 times)

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Offline TopAce

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New Forum (now with poll)
So in a word, despite the voting has yes as the lead, there won't be a new forum?:nervous:
My community contributions - Get my campaigns from here.

I already announced my retirement twice, yet here I am. If I bring up that topic again, don't believe a word.

 

Offline Sandwich

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If an staff member posts a poll related to the site, it might happen. If anyone posts a poll, it's to see what people think. Nothing more.
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline TopAce

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New Forum (now with poll)
Max is not a staff member of HLP, so it won't be done in a word.
My community contributions - Get my campaigns from here.

I already announced my retirement twice, yet here I am. If I bring up that topic again, don't believe a word.

 

Offline Shrike

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New Forum (now with poll)
[q]The reason the main site hasn't been updated beyond news posts is because to do so is clunky and requires FTP and HTML knowledge, something that not many staffers had much knowledge of in the pre-Styxx/Sandwich era. (;)).[/q]We stopped having everyone update the pages willy-nilly after we had a case where three people were working on the same page without knowledge of who else was working, with predictable results.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
[q]The reason the main site hasn't been updated beyond news posts is because to do so is clunky and requires FTP and HTML knowledge, something that not many staffers had much knowledge of in the pre-Styxx/Sandwich era. (;)).[/q]We stopped having everyone update the pages willy-nilly after we had a case where three people were working on the same page without knowledge of who else was working, with predictable results.


:lol: - I never knew that. :nervous:
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Gloriano

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New Forum (now with poll)
back to topic no new forum!!!
You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.- Nietzsche

When in despair I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won; there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall.- Mahatma Gandhi

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Fifty times a day? What, exactly, is going on now with the main page that needs an update fifty times a day?

And who said anything about an entire day to make a page? That's my outside for uploading an entire section, factoring in my own RL job, bureaucracy, render work, and sitting around being idle. Funny how you picked up on that one and not the part where I pointed out that all the HTML code there doesn't need more than ten minutes of attention a week, maybe a day's worth at the start.

I'd ask what there really is to know about HTML nowadays when even if you don't have the time to learn basic command lines and code everything's set out in a dozen perfectly good GUI-based programs for ya, but I don't think I wanna know. Either way, why would you need, say, a dynamic mod database? Because people are incapable of emailing?

 

Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Fifty times a day? What, exactly, is going on now with the main page that needs an update fifty times a day?

And who said anything about an entire day to make a page? That's my outside for uploading an entire section, factoring in my own RL job, bureaucracy, render work, and sitting around being idle. Funny how you picked up on that one and not the part where I pointed out that all the HTML code there doesn't need more than ten minutes of attention a week, maybe a day's worth at the start.

I'd ask what there really is to know about HTML nowadays when even if you don't have the time to learn basic command lines and code everything's set out in a dozen perfectly good GUI-based programs for ya, but I don't think I wanna know. Either way, why would you need, say, a dynamic mod database? Because people are incapable of emailing?


I need to go to bed, so I'm keeping this short.

Fifty times a day was an exaggeration, although with the new features the site will have, I wouldn't be surprised if various things were modified an average of 20 times a day... art galleries, articles, tutorials, news, hosted project news - not to mention all the stuff that will tie in with the forum.

And all those "perfectly good GUI-based programs" insist on screwing with code in one way or another - even the vaunted Dreamweaver MX. For dynamic sites, they are complete wastes of time.
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Granted, Dreamweaver ****s with code (wouldn't know about MX, not rich enough for a new version of anything these days). However, does that really interfere with anything important? I've never seen an irreparable problem with the code, and if I did I'd just go into Notepad and correct it, simple as that. HTML doesn't get very complex, which is how I managed to learn it in my spare time and not C.;)

And my distinction is between "will have" and need. Yeah, if you're gonna have dynamic updating, each person will have to upload their stuff individually, so twenty users updating is twenty updates. If you don't have the dynamic update because we're not implementing it yet, then ya compile all the stuff over the day, modify the pages with the new table entries, and update it all at once- one update a day, probably more like every other day since stuff doesn't move very fast around here anymore. Once a day is plenty until a better solution comes- it's a hell of a lot more than anyone gets their stuff up now, and I don't think the world will end if someone doesn't have their mod up precisely 50 seconds after they request it- people'll just swing by the next day and find it if they missed it.

You're still thinking of this with the assumption that it's an HTML replacement for the dynamic page. It's not- it's something to hold us over and get the page actually working until it is finished- which could be weeks, months, or years from now. There's simply no point in sitting, twiddling our thumbs, and letting FreeSpace (and hence HLP) get even older and deader until then. To anyone outside of the community, this is a dead site. There is nothing going on out there. So all the benefit in the world we could get from, say, the HOTU site is nothing, because the newbies come here for new stuff, see it hasn't been updated in around two years, and leave. Having a regularly updated version of the site in HTML until this dynamic code materializes doesn't hurt anything in the slightest. So... what's the problem, then? SSI code can be left as is or replaced with standard frames and the like, if nobody wants to mess with it (I don't, and you obviously don't). The news section, the only thing that would actually suffer a material disadvantage from lack of dynamic scripting (and the only thing that ever gets updated) can be left as is. Stuff like the art and mods can be slapped on in seconds with Dreamweaver (or Notepad), and uploaded in even less time. And then, when and if the dynamic page is finished, it can replace the updated site just as easily as the one that exists there now. There's no problem with the admins not "getting" HTML- if they or you don't wanna update the page, there are plenty of people willing to keep the community maintained, and in fact have been clamoring to do so for years. There's no problem with over-complex coding issues with the old site- if they prove restrictive, they can be replaced in no time flat. So... what, exactly?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2003, 07:24:27 pm by 262 »

 

Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Granted, Dreamweaver ****s with code (wouldn't know about MX, not rich enough for a new version of anything these days). However, does that really interfere with anything important? I've never seen an irreparable problem with the code, and if I did I'd just go into Notepad and correct it, simple as that. HTML doesn't get very complex, which is how I managed to learn it in my spare time and not C.;)  


Yeah, when you're coding in such a manner, having every file that is "included" via code "corrected" by DW with its missing tags can screw up a page something fierce. There's just no advantage to use a WYSIWYG program for someone like me, who both knows HTML extensively and codes in PHP. Homesite all the way. :)

Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
And my distinction is between "will have" and need. Yeah, if you're gonna have dynamic updating, each person will have to upload their stuff individually, so twenty users updating is twenty updates. If you don't have the dynamic update because we're not implementing it yet, then ya compile all the stuff over the day, modify the pages with the new table entries, and update it all at once- one update a day, probably more like every other day since stuff doesn't move very fast around here anymore. Once a day is plenty until a better solution comes- it's a hell of a lot more than anyone gets their stuff up now, and I don't think the world will end if someone doesn't have their mod up precisely 50 seconds after they request it- people'll just swing by the next day and find it if they missed it.


You are correct, better a slow, late update than none at all. However, as Shrike said: "We stopped having everyone update the pages willy-nilly after we had a case where three people were working on the same page without knowledge of who else was working, with predictable results."

Besides which, none of the admins really have that predictable amount of spare time anymore, AFAIK.

Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
You're still thinking of this with the assumption that it's an HTML replacement for the dynamic page. It's not- it's something to hold us over and get the page actually working until it is finished- which could be weeks, months, or years from now. There's simply no point in sitting, twiddling our thumbs, and letting FreeSpace (and hence HLP) get even older and deader until then. To anyone outside of the community, this is a dead site. There is nothing going on out there. So all the benefit in the world we could get from, say, the HOTU site is nothing, because the newbies come here for new stuff, see it hasn't been updated in around two years, and leave. Having a regularly updated version of the site in HTML until this dynamic code materializes doesn't hurt anything in the slightest. So... what's the problem, then? SSI code can be left as is or replaced with standard frames and the like, if nobody wants to mess with it (I don't, and you obviously don't). The news section, the only thing that would actually suffer a material disadvantage from lack of dynamic scripting (and the only thing that ever gets updated) can be left as is. Stuff like the art and mods can be slapped on in seconds with Dreamweaver (or Notepad), and uploaded in even less time. And then, when and if the dynamic page is finished, it can replace the updated site just as easily as the one that exists there now. There's no problem with the admins not "getting" HTML- if they or you don't wanna update the page, there are plenty of people willing to keep the community maintained, and in fact have been clamoring to do so for years. There's no problem with over-complex coding issues with the old site- if they prove restrictive, they can be replaced in no time flat. So... what, exactly?


You see, you can argue in a calm and convincing manner. :p

Tell you what. I don't have the time to go searching through the site, finding things to update (don't say it - don't say "Everything!") :lol: ), but if you want to, start a new thread to list all the things that people would like to see updated/changed. I can't promise anything aside from that I'll try and get around to some of the stuff when I can. And while you're at it, if you have any great feature suggestions for the dynamic site, make 'em known. ;)
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill