[killadonuts]

Looks like the religion thread has risen from the HLP grave  

[neo_hermes]

It has returned oh my!!:shaking:

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by killadonuts
Looks like the religion thread has risen from the HLP grave  

Nahh, I'm not really interested in discussing the Bible once again. Like I've said before, I'm not the kind of person who likes cramming beliefs down other people's throats.

I do find it really cool, though, when there is account of something in the Bible that is unconfirmed by science (or archaeology) for decades, until some discovery is made.

[Clone]

Originally posted by Sandwich
I'm not the kind of person who likes cramming beliefs down other people's throats.

Aren't you part of the IDF?

[CP5670]

Neither science or religion can prove things! Why do you insist on proofs being necessary to have acceptable "true" conclusions? Do you worship mathematical truth now?

Of course! But yeah, you're quite there; few things in science can be rigorously proven, and it is accepted for other reasons.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Clone
Aren't you part of the IDF?

Yep. And if you want to teach your children to hate me, that's fine. But when they go with intent to harm me, I'll blow their heads off.

So since one usually results in the other, don't you think it'd be wise not to teach them that in the first place?

[Clone]

Originally posted by Sandwich
Yep. And if you want to teach your children to hate me, that's fine. But when they go with intent to harm me, I'll blow their heads off.

So since one usually results in the other, don't you think it'd be wise not to teach them that in the first place?

I don't like kids, so no.

[Sandwich]

Allow me to rephrase that. "...if you want to teach the general population from children on up to hate me..."

Capiche? (sp?)

[Clone]

Like I said, I don't like kids.

Watching you butcher thousands of little kiddies would be quite fun to watch.

Does that make me evil? Hell yeah.

[J.F.K.]

Originally posted by Sandwich
The coolest part IMHO is the last paragraph.

I've gotta go check up on that...

[Shrike]

It really is a shame that they forgot to print the first page of the bible..... the one with the line 'This is a work of fiction.  All characters and events portrayed in this book are fictional, and any resemblence to real people or incidents is purely coincidental.'  

[J.F.K.]

Originally posted by Shrike
It really is a shame that they forgot to print the first page of the bible..... the one with the line 'This is a work of fiction.  All characters and events portrayed in this book are fictional, and any resemblence to real people or incidents is purely coincidental.'  

Well, it's undoubtable that major chunks of Genesis began as mere Semitic tribal stories. The difference about this Jewish myth (I am taking the definition of myth as the first from Dictionary.com: a traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society) is that it was raised up by God (according to Christianity) and shaped into what actually did happen. As for all the records and national accounts, they seem to me not too distant from regular historical sources.

[Turnsky]

Message for Mary (Luke 1:26-38)
When Libby was six months gone, God sent the same angel—this Gabriel bloke—to a backblocks town called Nazareth, in the Galilee shire, to a nice young girl who was engaged to the local carpenter, Joe Davidson. Her name was Mary.

The angel said to her, “G’day Mary. You are a pretty special sheila. God has his eye on you.”

Mary went weak at the knees, and wondered what was going on.

But the angel said to her, “Don’t panic, don’t chuck a wobbly. God thinks you’re okay. You’re about to become pregnant, and you’ll have a son, and you’re to call him Jesus. He will be a very big wheel, and will be called the Son of God Most High. God will give him the throne of his father—your ancestor—King David, and he will be in charge of the whole show forever.”

“But how?” said Mary. “Joe and I have done the right thing, we’ve never… well, you know. I mean to say, I’m still a virgin.”

The angel answered, “Leave the mechanics up to God. This is heavenly stuff. God’s Spirit will come upon you, and the Big Brain behind the Big Bang will manipulate the necessary molecules to make it happen. So this little kid of yours will be as special as it’s possible to be, and he’ll be called God’s own Son. Look, even Libby, your old cousin, is preggers—at her age! God can do these things. In fact, Libby is in her sixth month because nothing is impossible with God.”

“God’s in charge,” Mary answered. “If that’s what God wants, then it’s what I want to.”

Then the angel nicked off and left her alone.

Mary visits Elizabeth (Luke 1:39-56)
Mary didn’t muck about. She got packed and ankled it up to a town in the hills, where she went straight to Zeck and Libby’s place, so that she could say “G’day” to Lib. When Libby heard Mary’s “Cooee” at the front door the baby in her womb gave a kick like a footie player at a grand final, and Lib was filled with God’s Spirit. With a big grin, and a voice that could rattle windows, she said: “Good onya Mary! You beaut! God’s chosen you out of all the sheilas in the world, and your baby will be God’s toddler. But, stone the crows, why would the mum of my Big Boss, my Lord, come and see me? As soon as I heard the sound of your voice my little bun in the oven went bananas with excitement. Good onya for believing what God told you—for believing that God can do what he says he can do.”

And then Mary said, “My soul is as happy as Larry with God and my mind is just buzzing with God my Rescuer because he picked me—me! And I’m about as important as a bottle washer’s assistant! But from now on everyone who ever lives will call me well off—looked after by God—for the One who can do anything has done great things for me. His name is the only Name that matters. His gentleness rolls on like a river. He has done great things that would just knock your socks off. The rich, the stuffed shirts, the boss cockies, don’t impress God; he knocks them off their perch. But those who don’t have tickets on themselves he gives a hand to. He provides tucker for the hungry and sends the toffee noses away without a feed. He has wrapped his great arms around his chosen. He hasn’t forgotten his kindness and gentleness. Exactly what he promised yonks ago is what is happening now.”

Mary stayed with Libby for a few months and then nicked off back home again.

John is born (Luke 1:57-66)
When her nine months were up Libby popped her sprog. The next-door neighbours and the rellies all heard that God had been kind to her, and were tickled pink.

On the 8th day they came to circumcise the little tyke (as the habit was in those days) and they were going to call him “Zeck” after his Dad, but his mum spoke up and said, “Not on your Nellie. Call him ‘John’.”

They said, “But hang on—you haven’t got any rels named ‘John’.”

They made signs to Zeck, his Dad, to find out what handle he wanted to give the kid. He asked for a bit of paper and pencil, and he knocked them all for six when he scribbled down, “His name is ‘John’.” At once Zeck could talk again, and then he couldn’t stop yabbering, saying how terrific God was. The next-door neighbours had the wind knocked right out of them by this, and soon the bush telegraph was full of it, and in the hill country it was all they talked about

just look at the wording

http://www.theaussiebible.com.au/

[HotSnoJ]

That's strange.

Believe me, I've looked at the arguments from both sides (I almost became an evolutionist too) and I believe creationism/christianity is quite logical. And I'd rather go to the grave thinking I'll go to heavan then going to the grave and be wrong about it (i.e. going to hell).

[diamondgeezer]

Originally posted by HotSnoJ
I believe creationism/christianity is quite logical

But then anything can be logically explained to a Christian by saying 'because God made things that way'

[HotSnoJ]

Originally posted by diamondgeezer

But then anything can be logically explained to a Christian by saying 'because God made things that way'

And I think your's is, "It just happened. We don't exacly know how, but nothing exploded."

[diamondgeezer]

Pretty much. We like to say 'we don't understand the universe yet, but just give us time...'. At the end of the day, sience is more fun. You guys already know everything there is to know about the universe - ie. because God said so. Us scientists have got a long road of discovery ahead, which I reckon will make for more entertaining reading than the Bible.

[Shrike]

Originally posted by HotSnoJ
And I think your's is, "It just happened. We don't exacly know how, but nothing exploded."

To be more accurate, it is "It just happened. We don't exacly know how yet, but nothing exploded."

It's the whole questioning process.  Science is a tool to attempt to understand the world that surrounds us.  Faith is a tool to attempt to understand, more or less, the human condition.  Really, they are two different things that should deal with different subjects.

[Grey Wolf]

Originally posted by Rictor
I may just be ignorant of the facts, but I have so far never encountered an official (Church + scholar sanctioned) explaination as to the origins of the Bible. Oh, except that whole Shakespeare thing, but I don't buy it..

Well, all I can give you is stuff off Encarta:

Sources for the Old Testament/Torah:
The sources differ in vocabulary, literary style, and theological perspective. The oldest source is the Jehovistic, or Yahwist (J, from its use of the divine name Jahwe—modern Jehovah—or Yahweh), commonly dated in the 10th or 9th century BC. The second is the Elohist (E, from its use of the general name Elohim for God), usually dated in the 8th century bc. Next is Deuteronomy (D, limited to that book and a few other passages), dated in the late 7th century BC. Last is the Priestly Writer (P, for its emphasis on cultic law and priestly concerns), dated in the 6th or 5th century bc. J includes a full narrative account from creation to the conquest of Canaan by Israel. E is no longer a complete narrative, if it ever was; its earliest material concerns Abraham. P concentrates on the covenant and the revelation of the law at Mount Sinai, but sets that into a narrative that begins with creation.

Sources for New Testament:
The most widely held scholarly opinion is that Mark was the earliest written and became a source for Matthew and Luke. Most likely, Matthew and Luke each had other sources as well as a common source, a conjecture made on the basis of much shared material not found in Mark. This theorized but as yet unidentified source has simply been called Q, or Quelle (German, “source”). In a preface, the author of the Gospel of Luke speaks of having researched many narratives about Jesus (see Luke 1:1-4).

[Charlotte]

Somehow I find this quote quite appropriate here:

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Einstein