[Taristin]

GE: That would all imply that the Shivans had prior knowledge of GTVA affairs...

It would make more sense if the first few vessels that enterred were shielded, and we punched trhough them. Or the Ravana.  But it didn't seem to work out that way...

[Galemp]

Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
 The problem with this idea is that it assumes that:

  A - the Shivans have not destroyed non-advanced life
  B - the Shivans have a wide technological variety of ships at their disposal, each of which would be effectively menacing against any advanced species. So in other words they have a bunch of ships which would scare FS1 tech, and a bunch which would scare FS2 tech, and so forth.

A. Exactly. The Shivans are the Great Preservers, giving all life forms a chance to live long and prosper in their own systems. When one species discovers subspace, journeys out into the stars, discovers and tramples other primitive life, then the Shivans come and exterminate them, so as to allow other life to flourish. That is the underlying message of FS1 and the Ancients monologues.

"The Shivans are the great destroyers, but they are also the great preservers. That is why there was no one to destroy us.
Long had we been the destroyer. Our turn had nearly come."

Given humanity's treatment of life in the past (Remember Columbus?) it makes sense that when mankind ventured into other star systems they, like the Ancients, "saw other advanced life. And we subdued it or we crushed it." Nowhere does it say that Vasudans were the first alien lifeform discovered by the Terrans.

And B.) That's what they've demonstrated so far. How else would you explain the two fleets?

Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
GE: That would all imply that the Shivans had prior knowledge of GTVA affairs...

I think they do. Remember that the Shivans are not just another alien race; they are not of this universe. They are an immense cosmic force the likes of which we can barely comprehend. They are the great destroyers, the great preservers, the force which keeps the universe in balance and ensures all life is free from tyrrany. They are Shivans.

[Akalabeth Angel]

I think they do.  Remember that the Shivans are not just another alien race; they are not of this universe. They are an immense cosmic force the likes of which we can barely comprehend. They are the great destroyers, the great preservers, the force which keeps the universe in balance and ensures all life is free from tyrrany. They
are Shivans.

  If that's the case, why did they destroy Capella instead of continuing on into GTVA systems and wiping them out? Why allow civilians to escape, and to allow their prey to cut themselves off from the Shivans?

  Furthermore, why then did the Shivans take Bosch and his leutenants alive instead of simply killing them in the Nebula?

  I think the answer to why the Shivans have beams in FS2 but not in FS1 across their fleet is simple. FS2 has anti-ship and anti-fighter beams, therefore all warships get them. It wouldn't be very fun to have the Fenris firing beams while a Cain sits there and takes it. It also helps to epitomize the technological advantage the Shivans have as a tiny ship like the Lilith can destroy GTVA Destroyers single-handidly (if it gets the best angle).

[Galemp]

Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
If that's the case, why did they destroy Capella instead of continuing on into GTVA systems and wiping them out? Why allow civilians to escape, and to allow their prey to cut themselves off from the Shivans?

Furthermore, why then did the Shivans take Bosch and his lieutenants alive instead of simply killing them in the Nebula?

Those are the two great unanswered questions of Freespace 2. I challenge you to find any campaign that answers those convincingly.

The truth is, we really have no idea. It's up to [V]'s writers to tell us because presumably they already know, and were planning to use it in a sequel.

[Sesquipedalian]

Originally posted by GalacticEmperor


Those are the two great unanswered questions of Freespace 2.

And fun campaigns are the ones that leave them that way.  Answer the question, lose the magic.  Raise more questions, and the spell is woven tighter.

[Hippo]

Originally posted by IceFire

Another point to make is that the Shivans did not just disppear after FS1.  The tech room states that once the Lucifer was destroyed the Shivan fleet became disorganized and was hunted down and systematically destroyed.  Nonetheless, I get the impression that they caused problems for many years...as we saw in ST - several engagements with the Shivans during that time.

Hence the plot of AHTW...

[karajorma]

Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
Those are the two great unanswered questions of Freespace 2. I challenge you to find any campaign that answers those convincingly.  

Check the background for MindGames. Geezer answered both questions quite nicely there. Of course it only works for MG because of the existance of the Starborn.

[StarGunner]

Originally posted by Goober5000


Now that's an interesting idea.  The Lucifer could open unstable jump nodes.  'Twould explain why the Shivans didn't pop up all over the place in FS2 like they did in FS1.

Very interesting...

That would fit I think, heres what I think:

The Lucifer fleet might have been cut off from it's main fleet, and they developed the Sheilds as a means to protect it, and the Lucifer Fleet in anger attacked the ancients for their loss of their link to home. It would also explain why the Shivans attack everything on sight, mabe they are stuck or should I say locked in a state of mind where they think everything is after them.

The Lucifer Fleet loss would of been a magor blow to their powerfull force, so when they came back in FS2 they were maddened with frear so they assulted the Tarren-Vasudan ships at the portal, and started a war of death, that only they were truly kind, when they have realy gone mad.

Just my thoughts.