[TheCelestialOne]

I'm in need of information about this subject so please keep it on-topic and civil. I've already posted this on SB but I want to get as much opinions as possible. Also, these values might or might not be canon but basically, I don't care. These are the stats we're using here:

Ships involved:

Defiant class warship
Armament:
4 x Class I rapid fire phaser pulse cannon
1 x Type X Phaser bank
3 x Pulse fire Quantum/Photon torpedo tube
Defence Systems:
Auto modulated high capacity shield system
Heavy Duranium/Tritanium Ablative armour.
High level Structural Integrity Field
Expanding and fully covering armor (as seen in VOY - End game)
Warp Speeds:
Normal Cruise : Warp Factor 6  
Maximum Cruise : Warp Factor 8.7  
Maximum Rated : Warp Factor 9.5 for twelve hours
Non-warp speeds:
Full impulse (0.25c)

Whitestar:[/b]
Armament:
1 x Main beam
6 x Pulse cannon
Defense systems:
Semi-organic "learning" armor
Self repairing armor
Jump capabilities:
Can generate own jump point
Non jump speeds:
0.15c (high end calc)

Vorlon fighter:[/b]
Armament:
1 x Vorlon fighter grade beam
Defense systems:
Semi-organic "learning" armor
Self repairing armor
Jump capabilities:
Cannot generate own jump point
Non jump speeds:
0.12c (high end calc)

Shadow Battle Crab:[/b]
Armament:
1 x Shadow Death-Ray
1 x Jump Point Disrupter
1 x Energy Mine
Defense systems:
Bio-Organic armored hull
Shadow Shields
Tractor Beams
Phased Hyperspace Cloaking Devise (undetectable for ST sensors unless the ship remains in the same position for too long)
Jump capabilities:
Cannot generate own jump point
Non jump speeds:
0.18c (high end calc)
__________________________________________

Situation 1:

Open space, 1 dense asteroid belt. Defiant Vs. Whitestar to the death. No jump outs and no warp.

Situation 2:

Open space, 1 dense asteroid belt. Defiant Vs. Whitestar to the death. WITH jump outs and warp.

Situation 3:

Open space, 1 dense asteroid belt. Defiant Vs. Vorlon fighter to the death. No jump outs and no warp.

Situation 4:

Open space, 1 dense asteroid belt. Defiant Vs. 4 Vorlon fighters to the death. No jump outs and no warp.

Situation 5:

Open space, 1 dense asteroid belt. Defiant Vs. Shadow battle crab to the death. No jump outs and no warp.

READ THE SPECS BEFORE ANSWERING![/color]

[TheCelestialOne]

Guys?

[Ashrak]

ok whitester has 8x pulse cannons:) 4 front 4 sides


1: defiant probly wins
2: whitester wins open a jump point at defiants location boom no more defi
3: both sides open depends on tactics
4: defiant gets owned
5: Defiant looses shadows NEVER miss

[Singh]

I believe that the Defiant-class is equipped with a cloaking device (romulan) which is quite capable in it's own right.

I've seen B5 so but i still dont know about the capabilities of a jump drive or the effectiveness of those weapons. But here is what i would think would happen. Take note that i'm somewhat biased towards the star trek side.

Situation 1:
65-35 chance for the Defiant to win. Impulse speed of .25c means that it can outmanuever the whitestar by a wide margin. Also, the defiant has proven its capability to perform incredibly tight turns for a vessel of its size. Also, the Defiant has a seperate phaser array, which can fire at the whitestar despite not facing it directly. Torpedoes are also somewhat homing and Quantum torpedoes can do a bit of damage.

but from what i've seen, the whitestar's pulse phasers appear to be capable of firing in any direction as well, giving it an advantage as well. But then again, the Defiant has extreme shielding and armor, possibly negating this advantage.

Transporters also mean that as soon as shields are down, Defiant can beam over torpedoes directly into the whitestar, not to mention troops with which to invade and disrupt systems.

Situation 2:
80-20 Chance for defiant to win. Warp speeds allow for potential use of Picard Manuever to fool the enemy.

Situation 3:
90-10 chance for defiant to win. Starship vs lone fighter. Not a tough call. Small size might make it hard to hit, but the phaser array can catch it by surprise after a strafing run.

Situation 4:
20-80 chance for Defiant to win. Starship vs pack of fighters isn't exactly what i would call fair. If cloaking device is used, then odds can improve to 35-65, especially if the asteroid field is used. but prospect's aren't exactly good for the defiant.

Situation 5:
Inconclusive. i.e. 50-50

Shadow battle crab has identical weapons and defense systems as that of the Defiant. Both have cloaking devices, so its just a matter of how long the devices can last with power. The Defiant might have trouble, but due to its possible smaller size, it can hide better and shutting down most other systems means it can stay that way for a long enough time.
Warp systems and better impulse engine again means that defiant can pull the picard manuever, perhaps dodging a shot of the death ray and stuffing the battle crab with torpedoes and then warping out quickly. Such hit-and-run attacks might work, including long range bombardment via torpedoes.

The battle crab does have a few advantages in its mine layer and cloaking device, and it really comes down to the captains and who will loose the nerve first.

[TheCelestialOne]

Remember, the Defiant has the expanding and full ship covering armor from the future as seen in VOY - Endgame.

[Liberator]

1.  Defiant wins in the first pass.  Torpedos are not "semi" homing, they are a fully guided warhead.  The White Star's biggest ace is it's ability to open a jump point, take that away and it's just an oversized fighter.

2.  Defiant wins, but the Whitestar would run first and come back with help, so Defiant loses.

3.  Defiant wins.  Vorlon fighters aren't that tough when you've shields and Armor.

4.  Defiant wins, but is heavily damaged.

5.  After a pitched battle, Defiant wins due to having Armor and Shields.

The key thing to remember is that the Defiant has genuine Shields which are capable of deflecting or absorbing large amounts of energy and matter and the Armor technology which essentially make the ship invulnerable until the enemy is able to do enough damage.

[Woolie Wool]

How about these comparisons:

Enterprise E vs. GTD Hecate

Enterprise E vs. GTCv Deimos

Enterprise E vs. GVCv Sobek

Borg Cube vs. GTVA Colossus

Borg Cube vs. SJ Sathanas

Borg Cube vs. SD Ravana

Enterprise D vs. 4 Boanerges

No jumping at all.

Remember that FS2 weapons are more powerful than ST weapons: a photorp has a max theoretical energy yield of 64 megatons (the actual energy released is much less), and a quantum torpedo has twice the max theoretical yield, while a Harbinger's yield is fixed at 5 gigatons or 5,000 megatons. And a beam cannon puts a Harbinger to shame.

[TheCelestialOne]

NO! You will not hijack my thread. I need this info. Don't derail it.

[Carl]

the techroom stats for the FS weapons are pure bull. V said so themselves.

in fact, if the 500 tonne mass-->energy figure for the cyclops is correct, it would have a 10+ teraton yield. that's 2000 times the yield of the helios, and 10% as powerful as the asteroid that supposedly wiped out the dinsaurs.

[TheCelestialOne]

No hijacking my damned thread.........please....

[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by Carl
the techroom stats for the FS weapons are pure bull. V said so themselves.

in fact, if the 500 tonne mass-->energy figure for the cyclops is correct, it would have a 10+ teraton yield. that's 2000 times the yield of the helios, and 10% as powerful as the asteroid that supposedly wiped out the dinsaurs.

Then how the HELL are we supposed to judge energy yields?

[TheCelestialOne]

GODDAMNIT! I asked it nicely twice. Go make your own damned thread if you want to know it!

[Carl]

it is a bit relevant, TCO you see, in order to know which ST or B5 ship would win, you need to know the strengths of there weapons.

the Enterprise-D was destroyed by 10 photon torpedoes from a BOP. that's roughly 322 megatons, assuming half the blast of each impacts the hull. then there's the shields, which are typically stronger than the hulls of ST ships. so let's just double it to 644 megatons. the Defiant is much smaller than the Enterprise-D, so that'll be scaled down quite a bit.

the Whitestar, however, i don't know. a class of ship it was based on was once destroyed by a 600 megaton bomb, so assuming half he blast hit it, that's 300 megatons. of course, all that force was concentrated in one area instead of 10 seperate areas, so it would have breached the hull quicker.

[TheCelestialOne]

Well, its for a crossover fanfic I'm writing and there the Feddies will be further advanced then the B5'ers and on par with Vorlons/Shadows.

(No, I'm not doing a Federation Vs. B5 war )

[ZylonBane]

In fanfic, the winner is whoever you want it to be.

Sheesh.

[Hunter]

Based on the specifications of the Babylon 5 ships and weapons, and let's take say, a Minbari War Cruiser - The size being very large, just look at the flybys with B5 in the same shot - very big, and at least three times bigger than an Earth destroyer. Now taking all that into an account, and a Minbari ships fusion beam systems - Not sure how many, but has several smaller ones and the main cannon at the front. Look at the SIZE of that cannon when it fires, aka Freespace 2 big greens (though let's not get caught up in trying to compare them, Minbari beams are obviously ten times that of a GTVA one).   Now if this ship is VERY big and  the beam is VERY big, it must be VERY strong, eh? This is a simple way of looking at it, but that's how I see it. The Defiant's shields would deflect the opening shots, but with such a high-recharge rate and impressive size, the Defiant can't even take down a Dominion Battlecruiser - What chance does it have on a Warcruiser, or anything else  that can DESTROY a warcruiser?  And if a Shadow battlecrab can tear a Minbari War Cruiser in three-four shots, then I think it would take ten Defiants to take down a Battlecrab. Vorlon ships are, probably, equal to Shadow vessels as we've seen. It just depends on "who" gets the first shots in.

Oh, one more thing - Shadows don't have cloaking devices, they cannot "disappear", they simply jump out. I don't know the details, but it's basically an advanced form of jump drives.

[TheCelestialOne]

Shadows "phase" out. They just phase out as if they were cloaking, but actually the just manipulated space and phased into hyperspace.

You guy are however, forgetting that the Defiant can outrun and out manouver most ships. Manouvering would be on par with Vorlon/Shadow ships of equal size but speed is still very much in favor of the Defiant.

To take the Minbari warcruiser, it has 12 fusion beams. BUT they are all forward mounted. Since the Defiant is fast enough it can get and stay on its tail where only defensive turrets are placed.

Also, you are forgetting the advanced armor the defiant can deploy. That armor withstood an attack of THREE borg cubes without too much trouble. And taking into account that the Borg have technology of thousands of civilizations those 3 cubes together should AT LEAST be equal to 1 Shadow or Vorlon cruiser.

[Nico]

anyway, it's easy: ST being cheesy, any battle would be like that:
Defiant wins easily, or is about to loose, then the captain comes up with a great plan and  wins ( even more if it's a fanfic ). period.
ST wins, coz they cheat ( poorly ).

[TheCelestialOne]

Hmmm... but yet... Sheridan "somehow" manages to get past some ancient artifact defenses and plant a nuke inside it... All the protection he had was a space suit...

Now That was cheesy

[Nico]

I agree, but if he didn't manage that, you wouldn't have the usual nuke blast!!!
Of course, sometimes, B5 is cheesy too, but it's far beyond ST on that particular topic, you gotta admit
Anyway, that was pointless rambling from my part, so I apologize.