[JC Denton]

Sounds closer to the way the cockpits are done in X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter to me.

[Kazan]

things can be de-hardcoded

[aldo_14]

I had a wee look at the code (though i've got to be honest and say 90% of it is well over my head), and it seems that all the hud gauges are specified simply by their co-ordinates - i.e. just numbers.  So i'd guess you could just modify those by using a variable instead, and defining it somehow (maybe in a table).

I was thinking a model might be a lot more visually impressive, and could maybe (?) have some basic form of lighting - basically there's already some pof viewing support for the target box, so how much of a hit would it be to add an extra 800-ish pof-based cockpit model?    Personally, I'd think a bitmap would be easier, but it is a bit more crude IMO.

[Lightspeed]

Originally posted by aldo_14

I was thinking a model might be a lot more visually impressive, and could maybe (?) have some basic form of lighting - basically there's already some pof viewing support for the target box, so how much of a hit would it be to add an extra 800-ish pof-based cockpit model?    Personally, I'd think a bitmap would be easier, but it is a bit more crude IMO.

nah a model is not very visually impressive. It's just gonna look like some ugly shaped bad textured thin line thingies. Getting an object which is almost directly in front of the point of view to look good & clean you'd need to add tons of detail, so it would a) be a pain to create and texture, and b) look worse than if you'd just put a bitmap in which will prolly take less than 30 mins to create

Bitmap cockpits 0wn.

[StratComm]

Lighting is the true advantage of a cockpit model IMHO... you fly around with respect to the sun and different panels light up and fade darker as you adjust your fighter's orientation.  A little detail perhaps, but something that bitmaps can't do.

While I'm at it, let me make a little bump on something else.  Would it be possible to have parts of the player's ship render?  I had a couple of ideas about fighters with parts sticking out past the cockpit, but they wouldn't show up in game so it seems sort of pointless.  Also, it would allow "viewing from XXXX" to be much more meaningful; imagine looking out from the bridge of an orion (which presumably is underneath) and seeing parts of the deck as you should.  It would let you stick the eyepoint somewhere and have it mean something.

[Drew]

yes that would be kewl....
responding to the original topic tho...
Lightspeed, do you think you could post some screens illustrating what ur talkin bout? id make it easier for all of us to understand....

but i happen to agree with the model cockpit Rouge Squadron style because it CAN be higly detalied, ligted, and you can see stuff outside the ship (like was StratComm was sayin)

[Sticks]

If anyone want to give me a good 1024x768 cockpit bitmap, you have my promise of implementation of this feature.

Fair trade?

Edit: Well in D3D, at least.

[Rictor]

Sounds very fair to me. I'm no good at doing 3D stuff, but there are plently of people on here who are. The thing is, the cockpit would have to have panels which match up with the existing displays, while not blocking your view too much. Seems like more of a design problem than a technical one.

Anyways, here are some images for you to work with during the text phase, straight from V's animation department.

http://www.descent-freespace.com/goodies/gallery/cockpit/cok19.jpg
http://www.descent-freespace.com/goodies/gallery/cockpit/gtf0123.jpg

More can be found here

If you are planning on using those, and need them straightened out, I could do that.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Sticks
If anyone want to give me a good 1024x768 cockpit bitmap, you have my promise of implementation of this feature.

Fair trade?

Edit: Well in D3D, at least.

I can do it - can I assume we'd be using true green to indicate the transparent region?

But if you do do it, I'd like to see the code changes, for for the sake of trying to understand how it all works

[Drew]

here, ill get some screens of MS virtual cockpit in MS CFS 2
and the bitmap one

while ingame the 3d virtual cockpuit is way kewler it lacks high res detail
with the bitmap you can display any number of dials/guages at high res.. but it is ugly and lacks kewlness

[Nico]

Originally posted by Lightspeed


nah a model is not very visually impressive. It's just gonna look like some ugly shaped bad textured thin line thingies. Getting an object which is almost directly in front of the point of view to look good & clean you'd need to add tons of detail, so it would a) be a pain to create and texture, and b) look worse than if you'd just put a bitmap in which will prolly take less than 30 mins to create

Bitmap cockpits 0wn.

then again that's assuming anybody here can make a cool looking bitmap cockpit? now I doubt that much...
a 3D cockpit can look very cool if you make a cool model with cool maps. plus you could ( I suppose ) just map the various HUD anis on it as regular maps, and that would even allow you to have a padlock view.

[Drew]

Virtual 3d cockpit





2d "bitmap" cockpit


as you can see, the bitmap is highly detailed but you only have one view, straight ahead (sorta like the current hud view in fs2)

but the virtual cockpit is totaly a 3d model viewed from inside the fighter. It allows you move the view 360 degrees horizontaly/vertiacaly and you can view stuff on the outside of your fighter so you can actually inspect your plane for damages (BTW i happend to be flying a corsair)

EDIT: sry 56krs ;P

[Ypoknons]

Yeah, XWA (some others as well, even Freelancer actually) had that too and well, it's a trade off between what the modders are willing to do and not - 3D cockpits need time to be modelled and probably take longer to implement.

I would never argue against having both

[Flipside]

While 3D cockpits would be good, this would also mean re-programming the Joystick-Hat code to allow 'roll' rotation instead of 'switch' rotation, which might be a nice feature anyway, but my problem is that if you are talking about cockpit views for all ships, that's quite a lot of modelling really, and a lot of Modders wouldn't bother. The coders have done really well trying to remove the stress of adding thrusters to models, I'd rather not see it replaced with another submodel you have to make for your ships

Flipside

[Nico]

really, have you even worked on 2D art for games? making a cool looking 2D cockpit is an AWFUL amount of time, don't you realize? don't believe me? go on a flight simulator modding forum and ask around.
Does ANYONE HERE think he has the skills to do something like the 2d cokpit shown above? I sure don't, at least. Many people can do models, but cool looking 2D stuff? Don't think so.

[Flipside]

I wasn't suggesting you added a 2D cockpit either, most military research facilities are pouring millions of pounds into research to give the pilot exactly the view you have in Freespace 2, with no blind spots etc, by mounting cameras on the skin of the aircraft

Flipside

[Nico]

well then, this whole thread would have no point

[Lightspeed]

Originally posted by StratComm
Lighting is the true advantage of a cockpit model IMHO... you fly around with respect to the sun and different panels light up and fade darker as you adjust your fighter's orientation.  A little detail perhaps, but something that bitmaps can't do.
 

you can add some lighting simulation to the cockpit bitmap by blending it with the current brightness / hue

[Lightspeed]

Originally posted by Venom
really, have you even worked on 2D art for games? making a cool looking 2D cockpit is an AWFUL amount of time, don't you realize? don't believe me? go on a flight simulator modding forum and ask around.
Does ANYONE HERE think he has the skills to do something like the 2d cokpit shown above? I sure don't, at least. Many people can do models, but cool looking 2D stuff? Don't think so.

Then just make your 3d model, render it, and import the bitmap... That way you can retexture things easily and you could even add some minor details with simple image editing

the 2D Cockpit up there looks really flat, but you _can_ implement some cockpits with depth without a need to render it (making it look ugly and edgey like the 3D cockpit up there)

[Flipside]

It wouldn't look as good though. I suppose if it HAD to be done, I would recommend the model version to be honest, but there are a few problems to overcome...., not only would you have to create  the cockpit, if you were doing it correctly, you'd need to make space for instrument panels to be mapped onto predefined polys on the Cockpit Model, which would then have to be tested to make sure they were visible in-game, you'd have to make sure the cockpit model wasn't going to 'overlap' the front of the ship, even if the cockpit isn't drawn in game, it would look odd to see ships hulls start being drawn inside your cockpit if you get too close. Using glowmaps, you could get a good model, but I suppose the best idea is to have a 'default' cockpit the game uses if none is specified for the ship?

Anyway, that's my thoughts