Author Topic: Simplifying models?? (some graphics included)  (Read 4666 times)

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Simplifying models?? (some graphics included)
Quote
that will work technicaly, but man, try to make it out of one subobject, it just looks like a bunch of cylinders glued together


   Yeah, it wasn't so hot. Anywhere, here's my second attempt, I posted it on the TBP board too.
I tried to make it out of less objects and used a lot less faces. It's a little better though I think the aft-fins need some repositioning as I can't Boolean Union them . . . well actually I can do it for 2 out of 4, but not all of them for some odd reason. (and it's not always the same 2 that I can do. Just whichever two I click first work, and the 3rd and 4th don't)


 

Offline adwight

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Simplifying models?? (some graphics included)
I really like that design.  Good work :D
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Offline StratComm

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Simplifying models?? (some graphics included)
cool design, but you've got a couple of problems.  The wing passes right through the fusilage, which may still cause the clipping errors you were warned about before.  It also doesn't look like the pods are attached to the wings correctly (when you attach them, make sure to split up the adjacent panels to prevent a polygon with 4 colinear vertices.  If you're going to model this way, you need to learn how to boolean and clean up after the operation.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 
Simplifying models?? (some graphics included)
Yeah, that was an earlier one which wasn't one object. It was because I couldn't attach the tail fins correctly until I triangulated them which seemed to do the trick. Here's the new images:
I boolean unioned the wing to engine pod and TS gave me no problems, so I'm not quite sure if there's a problem and if there is I don't understand what it is :) (dunt understand yer math talk)


 

Offline KARMA

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Simplifying models?? (some graphics included)
Quote
Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel

I boolean unioned the wing to engine pod and TS gave me no problems[/IMG]

It may SEEM simple..but it isn't
when using booleans you have to verify for bad geometry probs (like double verts, etc)
They can work in game or not, but it's always better to check and fix them.
An example of bad geo is the connection between the wings and the lateral pods, but usually it is far harder to see it...with some experience you will be able to anticipate when a boolean operation will likely generate bad geo
« Last Edit: October 19, 2003, 06:01:39 am by 433 »

 
Simplifying models?? (some graphics included)
Quote

It may SEEM simple..but it isn't
when using booleans you have to verify for bad geometry probs (like double verts, etc)
They can work in game or not, but it's always better to check and fix them.
An example of bad geo is the connection between the wings and the lateral pods, but usually it is far harder to see it...with some experience you will be able to anticipate when a boolean operation will likely generate bad geo


   Okay, so, if it is bad geometry, and you seem pretty sure that it is. How do I rectify the problem? I loaded up Truespace and tried the "Fix Bad Geometry" button and the "decompose into objects (if they're not connected good)" button but niether of them seemed to do anything. Do I need a Truespace extension of some sort?

 

Offline StratComm

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Simplifying models?? (some graphics included)
I've never found decompose to do anything at all.  However, for fixing geometry problems, see what defines bad geometry in Kara's FAQ and you just have to try to fix things up until it works.  With your current union, there are problems with the pod-wing connections still; the polygons on the pods around the wings have verts that cannot be connected by a straight line, and that doesn't work correctly in game (as Freespace can't resolve which side of the edge to fill in)... The rules are pretty explicit, it's just playing with them until you get it right.  Only comes with experience I'm afraid.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

  

Offline KARMA

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Simplifying models?? (some graphics included)
I'm nots sure those kind of probs are covered on kara's faq, btw the main rule is simple: keep your model solid
Actually, you can try non solid models and they really often will work w/o problems, but they more likely will have problems, will be rendered in odd ways in game, will be harder to be textured, will cause TS to crash, will not be converted, will cause some poly-wasting.
The more pro/expert you are the more you will be able to create models without using strategies that can cause those problems and the more you will be able to see where those problems are and fix em.
With solid mesh I mean a mesh with all the vertices connected to the neighbor vertices.
Stupid example that should help you understanding: imagine a line with three verts, the two extremities and a vert in the middle.
(like this: x--x--x ) With solid I mean that you have three verts in a row connected by two edges. But for many reasons it can happen this: x--xx--x with the two verts in the middle not connected and sharing the same position. This is nonsolid: you have two different and separated lines that look like only one.
You will not be able to see the difference between the two situations until you try to move one of the two verts in the middle.
In your ship the connection between pods and wing is an example of nonsolid geometry (but if you are lucky it will work anyway, you just have to try)
To fix this you have to
1-pick one of the vers in the midddle and move it
2-connect manually the two verts in the middle
3- restore the first vert to it's original position
4- weld the two verts
Also triangulating should help fixing those probs.
The try to fix bad geo button is useful, but only to fix solid models with some faces screwed by TS bugs or bad operations (it's a bit long and hard to explain, I'm not sure I would be able to, and anyway is useless at this point, just use it as last resource)

 

Offline Kazan

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Simplifying models?? (some graphics included)
FYI: FS2 has always supported Direct3D

when [V] Released it it supported: Direct3D5, Glide

FS2 Open: Direct3D8 HTCL, Direct3D8, [Direct3D5 - inaccessable], OpenGL, Glide
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Offline karajorma

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Simplifying models?? (some graphics included)
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Originally posted by KARMA
I'm nots sure those kind of probs are covered on kara's faq


I didn't cover it cause I linked to IP Andrews Tutorial which does. I guess I could make that fact more clear though :D
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Offline TrashMan

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Simplifying models?? (some graphics included)
Don't glue! Union!

Allways keep the deltete edges and triangulate first off!
Allso, use add vertex to keep the faces concave... I have a pic somewhere to show you what I mean...I'll post it if I can find it...
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