Author Topic: Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...  (Read 4425 times)

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Offline Sandwich

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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Shrike

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
You've only just noticed the Stryker?  :wtf:  There's all kinds of arguments surrounding it.
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Offline Fineus

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
(Having never played RA2) What is it? Some kind of "any package on top of the same body" deal?

 

Offline Petrarch of the VBB

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
In a word, yes. Put different types of infantry in it, and takes on their role, as it were. Put a tesla trooper in it, it becomes a tesla tank, put an engineer in it, it becomes a repair vehicle, and so on.

 

Offline Sandwich

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
You've only just noticed the Stryker?  :wtf:  There's all kinds of arguments surrounding it.


Excuse me for not living in North America, as well as for not having a TV. :p

And Thunder: if you like strategy games at all, RA2 is one of the more fun ones. Not all that realistic, but simply fun. :)
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Fineus

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
And Thunder: if you like strategy games at all, RA2 is one of the more fun ones. Not all that realistic, but simply fun. :)

Cheers, I might do that... I've been playing HW2 for a while now.

 

Offline Sandwich

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
:)

On the Stryker issue, I haven't researched it (obviously), but from what little I've seen, it seems that the "issues" involve its vulnerability to anti-tank weapons (namely the extremely common Russian-made RPG). Now, pardon me, but if you write a virus, and then complain that anti-virus programs are able to stop it, who's fault is that- the virus's? :rolleyes:
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline NeoHunter

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
Nope. The people who wrote the anti-virus program.:D

 

Offline Styxx

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
On the Stryker issue, I haven't researched it (obviously), but from what little I've seen, it seems that the "issues" involve its vulnerability to anti-tank weapons (namely the extremely common Russian-made RPG). Now, pardon me, but if you write a virus, and then complain that anti-virus programs are able to stop it, who's fault is that- the virus's? :rolleyes:


I don't know what exactly you mean by that, but the fact remains that its armour is easily defeated by a very common current weapon, rendering it ineffective. That's the major problem with it, I guess, but I don't really know that much about the issue.
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Offline Sandwich

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
The whole purpose of that "very common current weapon" just happens to be defeating MBT armor... to expect the armor of a glorified and highly modifiable APC to withstand such weapons would mean that you would have to equip said vehicle with better armor than an MBT.

I mean, really:

1) Tanks are invented.
2) Anti-tank weapons are invented.
3) People complain that tanks are a failure because they are vulnerable to anti-tank weapons.

Puh-leeeze! :rolleyes:

EDIT: Now I'm not saying that the tank in the analogy shouldn't be improved simply because it was defeated by something else that was made to defeat it, but there needs to be either a change in presentation of this Stryker vehicle, or a change in its composition.

Presentation: Public, this ain't a tank. It's supposed to provide mobility to ground forces and protection from anything from small arms fire to heavy machine-guns. If you want a vehicle that can withstand modern anti-tank weaponry, go pour yourself a 10-meter thick wall of reinforced concrete and put wheels on it.

Composition: Due to the multiplicity of anti-tank weaponry among the enemy, the Stryker vehicle as originally concieved is ill-suited to the modern battlefield. In its current state, it can fulfill the role of infantry transport to the front-lines exceedingly well, as well as various other duties that do not involve intentional front-lines combat. The alternative is to redesign the vehicle to be 5 meters wide, 10 meters long, and 3 meters tall. The internal space will not increase; all this extra space will be devoted to additional armor to withstand even the fiercest barrage of weaponry concievable.

:rolleyes:
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Styxx

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
No, it's more like:

- Tanks are invented
- Anti tank weapons are invented
- Better tanks that can resist previous anti-tank weapons are invented
- Better anti-tank weapons are invented that can defeat modern armor
- Repeat

Against a modern MBT, one of those RPGs can at best hope for a mobility kill. I know the Stryker shouldn't have as much armor as an MBT, it would be silly, but there is people lobbying to get it to replace true MBT forces (the version with the tank gun), where it doesn't have even nearly the same survivability as a modern main battle tank.

I won't argue this because I don't know all the facts, but that's what I heard on the issue up to now.
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Offline Sandwich

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
Again, :rolleyes:. Even modern MBTs can be taken out of the equation with the right weapon hitting the right spot, and I don't just mean having their mobility impaired, either.

I'm quite versed in the RPG - I used it in the IDF. RPGs are constantly upgrading. The basic launch tube remains essentially the same, but it's not the launch tube that is causing the damage, now is it?

The rockets they had when I learned about the RPG (5-6 years ago) were capable of penetrating over a meter of standard armor with ease.


A meter. That's a lot of metal.


Now of course there are more advanced types of armor beyond just plain metals - CHOAM, reactive, plated, etc... but the fact of the matter is that our ability to cause damage to an object is increasing faster than our ability to protect said object from damage is. "Build 'em, and they will come."
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Styxx

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Again, :rolleyes:. Even modern MBTs can be taken out of the equation with the right weapon hitting the right spot, and I don't just mean having their mobility impaired, either.

I'm quite versed in the RPG - I used it in the IDF. RPGs are constantly upgrading. The basic launch tube remains essentially the same, but it's not the launch tube that is causing the damage, now is it?

The rockets they had when I learned about the RPG (5-6 years ago) were capable of penetrating over a meter of standard armor with ease.


A meter. That's a lot of metal.


Now of course there are more advanced types of armor beyond just plain metals - CHOAM, reactive, plated, etc... but the fact of the matter is that our ability to cause damage to an object is increasing faster than our ability to protect said object from damage is. "Build 'em, and they will come."


So, you're saying you'd support it if the IDF decided to switch their Merkavas for the mobile gun variant of the Stryker?
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Offline Shrike

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
The issue isn't that it's vulnerable to RPGs per se, it's that it's vulnerable to RPGs and is planned to fill a role where said vulnerability is a massive failing.  Apparently some people in the US military want to use it as a light tank, something that it emphatically is not.  That's one of the issues surrounding it.

Another is that it's note as airportable as it should be, it just barely fits into C-130s and that's stripped down.

Anyhow sandy, I figured you'd have heard of it seeing as you're in the military.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Zeronet

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
RPGs for the most part will be irrelevant soon, with the new tank shielding tech.
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Offline neo_hermes

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
What shielding tech?
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Offline vyper

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
Ooh that electrical  charge stuff.... :drevil:
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Offline Styxx

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
There's that and there's the actual electromagnetic shielding that's being proposed for the US Future Combat Systems, which is just a concept by now if I'm not mistaken.
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Offline neo_hermes

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
oh k
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Offline Gloriano

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Remember the Allied IFV from Red Alert 2? It's Real...
military technology is evolving every year (or so) something new is builded or trying to make but i think that just bad because that money could be used somewhere else :)

okay it was little OT


*still remempers his military years*:sigh:
You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.- Nietzsche

When in despair I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won; there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall.- Mahatma Gandhi