[Zeronet]

Originally posted by mikhael
Ah, but don't parents always force things on their children?

Only thing i,ve had forced on me is reading when i was younger. I was christened when i was nine, after being informed over a few weeks by the Priest of what it entailed. That is of course different, to having your parents decide you need bits of you removing, especially when it has detremental effects.

Personally, i have a undamaged john thomas.

[Petrarch of the VBB]

I'm increasingly tempted to sing "Isn't it awfully nice to have a penis"

[diamondgeezer]

Or possibly Ivor Biggun's "I'm a wanker"

[Petrarch of the VBB]

Yes, but given the subject of the thread, it would lead me back to threads of old, either here or on PCG, about the benefits, in terms of masturbation, of being circumsised.
I've said too much.

[wEvil]

Why do i always walk back into this place in the middle of a huge argument?

[diamondgeezer]

Five letters, starts and ends with R and rymes with 'Razor'


*runs*

[01010]

Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
Yes, but given the subject of the thread, it would lead me back to threads of old, either here or on PCG, about the benefits, in terms of masturbation, of being circumsised.
I've said too much.

My primary concern for the "chopped" population is that, doesn't masturbation require lots of lube and patience? Also, loose fingernails = pain.

I personally, have not received the chop.

Mik: I think that when it comes to circumcision, it'd be better to let your son make the decision for himself if it ever even comes to it (unless there was a specific medical reason). I personally see no gain from circumcision, but conversely, I don't see all that much loss in it either. The whole baptism thing is something else entirely however.

Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
I'm increasingly tempted to sing "Isn't it awfully nice to have a penis"

It's swell to have a stiffy, it's divine to own a dick. From the tiniest little tadger, to the worlds biggest prick.

[Ace]

Originally posted by mikhael
Ah, but don't parents always force things on their children?

I'm not sure if I'll have my son circumcised. My wife thinks he should be; I'm undecided. On the one hand, as I said before, I'm fine with my cock. But the question that picks at my brain is, 'what if I'm missing out on something?' and what if by circumcising my son, it costs HIM something? And of course there's the whole idea that we are talking about removing a bit of flesh for (if you're not jewish) purely aesthetic reasons. And there's the whole emotional, male-gut-response issue: can I really stand by and let someone take a knife to my childs genitals? Or the other side of it: how much do I want my child to be like me?

Its too loaded. It puts my brain into circles.

Then there's Christening. I think my wife and I will christen our children. She's catholic and I'm a deist. I figure there's no harm in a meaningless ceremony and she figures if she's right, the child has won Pascal's wager (or at least has a chance to make the wager).

My opinion is close to this, however I feel that it is the child's choice upon reaching maturity to decide wether to take on Pascal's wager.

Afterall, would it not be better for someone to truly decide to believe (or not to) in a religion on their own, as opposed to being indoctrinated into it from childhood?

[wEvil]

technically, im a confirmed christian.

in practise im more of a new age practitioner sooo.... *shrug*  

If the religion doesn't work for them , they wont stick with it.  simple.

[Woolie Wool]

Indoctrination is designed to make the religion "work for them". It's a euphemism for brainwashing IMO.

[Petrarch of the VBB]

Indeed. That's what angers me greatly. Children being forced into Christianity from the moment they start school. We used to have assembly every morning, with singing hymns, praying, etc, and had a priest once a week.

[Bobboau]

well, you've got to be indocrinated into somethng, if you don't indoctronate you're childeren someone else will

[01010]

Originally posted by Bobboau
well, you've got to be indocrinated into somethng, if you don't indoctronate you're childeren someone else will

Not necessarily, I never had anything forced upon me by my parent and I've never really paid much attention to anyone elses attempt to indoctrinate me.

[Bobboau]

what did you do as a child?
generaly speaking

[Kazan]

Stryke: I am not going to respond to your posts after this one - you derailed this thread origionally and started a flame war - you are trying to do it again - you have just blatantly insulted my intelligence - which a massively unwise thing to do.

Someone who is biased is the most likely to call someone else biased, someone who is extremely impressionable is most likely to accuse someone else of the same thing, someone who is out of touch with reality is likewise most likely to accuse someone else of the same thing

To generalize the statement: Someone who is guilty of something is most likely to accuse someone else of being guilty of the same thing.


Do not accuse me of being guilty of your crimes against intellectualism - they are your crimes, not mine

[Kazan]

My issue

I had no choice in this matter

My parents and my doctor chose to permanantly and irreversably modify my genitals, and destroy massive ammounts of nerve tissue, immune system tissue, lymphatic tissue, and modify the mechanical functionality of the penis in sex

They chose to impose a permanant alteration upon my body when I was just days old  based upon myth and ignorance perpetuated by so-called doctors

Wide spread circumcision was brough to US hospitals are a cure for: MASTERUBATION and the supposed problem of male baby's foreskins being unretractable, which they are not suppose to be


My Parents and Doctor chose to MUTILATE my genitals, they imposed their decision upon me when I was helpless to defend myself


Now I must live this their decision, knowing that I am not how I should be - knowing that I will never know how I am suppose to be - finally able to articulate the feelings my more primative brain has been trying to wisper to my higher brain for years.

[mikhael]

Kaz, I sense anger in you. Anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering and all that. I don't know about you, but my doc did a reasonably good job on me--and luckily he cut conservatively, so I still have a little bit of flesh there. Just don't do it to your son, and make sure, when he gets older, that he understands why you didn't (he WILL ask, I'm sure, since he'll see the other boys after gym and wonder what's going on). But don't go on with the sturm und drang. Its doesn't do any good. Spread the word, but don't become the sort of freaky frothing fundamentalist that pushed this sort of thing on the rest of us in the first place.

"Cures" for masturbation make me laugh. They might as well have attempted to "cure" urination or the like.

[Liberator]

Kazan, you're starting to scare me...

You said it your self, you were days old.  As an infant you were incapable of complex thought, you were an eating and pooping machine just like the rest of us.

It takes a while for this little bit of wisdom to sink in, years usually and some never get it: You are the sum of your knowledge, experiences and faith.  No alteration to your physicality, especially at so young an age, makes you a different person than you would have been otherwise.

[Kazan]

Liberator: WRONG

Your statement is outright wrong - pyschial things can be a dormant issue - until you realize exactly what has been done to you - My body was altered, against my will, without my consent

Now that I know what they did to me I wish they would not have done it.  It takes make me a different person, it makes me different than I want to be, than I would chose to be.

I am outraged that they damaged my sexual organs

[Kazan]

mikhael: there is a thing known as reperations.  I have the right to demand reperations for medical malpractice - the precident for this situation is out there - I need to but file a case at my leasure