[marajin]

I get "The page cannot be found" for hlp.com. It does have an IP assigned though...

Houston Lighting and Power ? (Whois info)

(Edit: Bah, Kazan beat me to it, but I blame the 10 minutes where all the gamespy.com and fileplanet.com sites appeared to die for me. Odd that)

[Sticks]

I for one am finding this discussion to actually be quite fun. So, for the heck of it I pulled up the DMCA and gave my godparents a call (who are civil lawyers). They had never dealt with it directly, so that wasn't much help. However, there are a few clauses that are pertinent to this issue:

Title 17: Chapter 12: Section 1201: Subsection (f)(1)

Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a)(1)(A), a person who has lawfully obtained the right to use a copy of a computer program may circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a particular portion of that program for the sole purpose of identifying and analyzing those elements of the program that are necessary to achieve interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and that have not previously been readily available to the person engaging in the circumvention, to the extent any such acts of identification and analysis do not constitute infringement under this title.

This section dealing with reverse engineering does not specifically prohibit reverse engineering of code to expose flaws in the code logic or programming. However, it does not explicitly allow this behavior, either.

The following segment of the DMCA deals with being exempt from prosecution for revealing security flaws:

Title 17: Chapter 12: Section 1201: Subsection (j)(3)(A)

whether the information derived from the security testing was used solely to promote the security of the owner or operator of such computer, computer system or computer network, or shared directly with the developer of such computer, computer system, or computer network; and

He did not use the information solely for himself (a violation), but he did share it with the developers (an exemption). Which one applies?

This is the fundamental problem with the DMCA. It's language is far too vague and does not adaquately cover all possible facets of computer use.

[Taristin]

Heh, hardlightproductions.com   just bookmark it. lol

[Kazan]

Sticks: i know the problem with the DMCA - they had him on things other than the DMCA fortunately

[Sticks]

Sorry, I just thought I'd post something educational, and anyhow, I don't mind law research.

[Kazan]

ok.. was just wondering why you posted... btw you wouldn't happen to know what Goober is talking about with PXO Session IDs do you?

[Sticks]

I can't say that I've ever had the opportunity to use the netcode at all, actually. Is there a master server running?

[Drew]

This is an important issue but lets please not get ahead of ourselves...
If we were to cut relations with GS it would be a huge loss of advertising/ etc. But look at this objectivly, how many times has this happened? If GS was makeing huge abuses of the DMCA all over the place it would definite grounds for cutting relations. So far there has only been 1 documented abuse...

When that guy released ways to circumvent GS security tech, Its easy to see why GS would veiw it as a major threat. look at his site, this dude has released hundreds of exploitable bugs on of softwere; dosnt really enhance this guys credibility. Crackers all over the place had the information that could help crack GS soft.

the question is; Is luigi wrong for releasing ways to crack GS soft, or is GS wrong for shutting him up for doing so...
plz lets see where this heads before we make MAJOR descisions about HLP


anyways, if we did leave, we would lose a major chance to revive FS2.....

[Kazan]

no the master server is what's being worked on right now so it's not on it's final destination.. i have to make arrangements with Inqui to get it's final spot up

right now it's only up when im testing ****

Drew - turns out it wasn't an abuse, but a justified use -- read the _entire_ thread -- i was entertaining the idea, and it's SCP not HLP that was involved

[Drew]

Originally posted by Kazan
-- read the _entire_ thread --  

i did
but i think the members have an idea on what i mean by "abuse" because the use was treated by a couple members as an "abuse"

[Goober5000]

For everyone's information, Kazan's fundraising thread was moved to the internal forum pending discussion with the rest of the SCP staff.

[StratComm]

For the best, I was aftaid Kazan was going a bit OTT.  Have you looked into SourceForge at all?

[Kazan]

there is no such thing as an over the top reaction in relation with abuses of the DMCA - however they didn't abuse it, just used it

i have a sourceforge remember, it's kinda limiting (no mySQL)

[Windrunner]

I haven't read the whole nor do i intend to do it, Kazan you are making a big fuss out of nothing. Maybe Gamespy did act wrongly in some way, but that is not of our concern. Its they that are going to get sued and not us(IF they get sued). Just drop this and move on.

[Xelion]

Windrunner is totally right on this (the fuss part only), it is of minimal concern! whether you have an open source project running on their server and have relations with them directly on the project. This is an internal issue directly running with the company and a previous employee/contractor or whoever that guy is...of course silencing him will only respawn yet another, but things like this will always come into play whether people see these faults or not.

Right now I think its in everyones best interest to stay on gamespy, whether problems like this arise in the future.

I think the only time we should should be protesting is when its about Freespace

[Setekh]

I've just read through the whole thread. Kazan, I am proud of you that you stand so strongly against what is wrong. However, I must strongly request you to not make any more statements to GS till this calms down some more. Partly because of the turnaround in your opinion through the course of this thread - one day you may say something very serious and not mean it in 24 hours. Secondly, your statement affects the relationship everyone else here has with GS, even if you explicitly state that your opinion does not represent the official stance of the staff. Please don't jeopardise our hosted relationship unless it's absolutely necessary - and right now, it really is. I just ask you to hold a little longer if you plan to take more action. Thanks.

[Gloriano]

i agree with Setekh:nod:

[Kazan]

Setekh: i talked to GS, I asked them for clarification and what not, and they responded very promptly, part of my change of opinion was there responses.  They were quite happy in my last email when I was like "ok, i agree with you ........ now im going to go defend you from the Slashdot Horde"


Windrunner and Max: you're missing the point

[Woolie Wool]

A business's priorities are:

1. Making money
2. Making more money
3. Everything else

Anything that can be used to suck revenue from a corporation is considered to be a Very Bad Thing by that particular corporation.

The reason why games are moddable is so that people who don't have the game will see the mods, spooge all over their keyboards, and buy the game.

Ever wondered why all of the minor "Mom and Pop" car companies in the US (Saleen, Mosler, etc.) modify existing cars or build exotic supercars? It's because the Big Three will do everything in their power to destroy any competition to them. They can't stop import manufacturers, but they pretty much have choked off any possible competition in the mainstream domestic car market. GameSpy is a business, and it has to roll in the big bucks or it's in trouble.

That is why a lot of software companies exert such control over their customers: they want to get as much money from them as possible.

Don't like it? There's nothing you can really do about it. Too bad, so sad.

[kasperl]

ok, i read most, and i skimmed the rest, and i am compeletly lost, pratially due to some references to posts not there.

could someone, explain to me, in very, very simple terms, in about a line or 10, what the real poblem is.